Guard Star

[Kaisersammler]

Hello everyone
Would you take a look at the Guard Star? Your opinion as to whether it is original would be important to me. Thanks in advance

 

[Sandmann]

I‘m sorry, but I doubt the originality of the guard star.
Take some time and compare it with the one for sale at weitze.net:

Preußen Pickelhaube für einen Offizier der Garde-Regimenter - Preussen - Kaiserreich & Weimarer Rep.: Uniformen, Kopfbedeckungen, Stahlhelme etc. - Militaria / Helmut Weitze

Preußen Pickelhaube für einen Offizier der Garde-Regimenter Um 1912. Eleganter Helm aus Vulkanfiber, komplett mit allen Beschlägen in vergoldeter Ausführung. Vorne der Große Gardeadler mit versilbertem Gardestern mit dein emailliertem Zentrum. Flache Schuppenketten

www.weitze.net

The work is much cleaner. In your example, the details are only indicated. I don’t think that they have been rubbed off, as the blowholes from the unclean casting process on the outer ring haven't been rubbed off in the slightest. However, you can see it most obviously in the hatching pattern of the letters, where the distances between the lines are very different and the lines aren‘t parallel sometimes. In addition, the letters were cut out rather poorly.
The eagle on the other hand, looks good in my eyes.

 

[b.loree]

I totally agree with Sandy, the differences are obvious, once you have an original example to compare with the reproduction.

 

[JzPf]

Agree with Sandy & Brian, compared to an original

 

[dave mosher]

Both look good to me...

 

[Saxonia]

ANYONE who has been involved with collecting imperial German helmets and every thing else will know that various manufacturers introduced their own "artistic " & technical specifications and often pieces vary considerably Patterns were laid down and in overall appearance appear similar but ofen differ in detail Could I mention screw threads and their screw nuts as a starter The two grade stars are very good and the detailing to the rear is exactly as originals I would not be so quick to a view of its originality.

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Spikehelmets - Prussia

spikehelmets.pl

The beautiful reproduction from Spikehelmet has nothing to do with the 2 stars above.

For example, here the SUUM QUIQUE is in one piece with the olive branches, it is molten metal in a mould.
On the 2 authentic supra, the SUUM QUIQUE is in cut and engraved metal.
But you do have to be meticulous when making comparisons.

 

[Saxonia]

Hello again... Weitze now ( yesterday 21st ) has a Garde Officers helmet with the suspect Gard star .....right there !

 

[Arran]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the star that is the subject of this thread!

 

[Saxonia]

I totally agree with Arran...

 

[seagull]

Sorry to hijack this thread but I have the same question on this star which came to me on an EM plate, so wrong right there. When taking it off one of the brad legs detached and at least that showed me the solder was old and probably a bit decayed. Reading the above, and other similar posts, I believe there are some other important clues to originality : aren't the ridges on the two rings supposed to point in opposite directions? The horizontal lines on the motto are present and the back looks good to me? The plate from which the motto is cut does seem to be at fault in protruding out from the inner ring on the right hand side but it is backed by what looks like white felt or cloth and the construction seems correct. Do I take it that sizes may vary by manufacturer? If size matters (!) I'll get the calipers out and add the dimensions.
Thanks for any opinions, I won't be surprised if there are conflicting points of view, I am undecided too.
Thanks, Steve

 

[911car]

Was a consensus reached? I would echo what Saxonia said about variations between hatters, and propose that the star shown by Kaisersammler is authentic and correct.
Here is another example that cannot be suspected of being a forgery. High-ranking nobility helmet from 1GRzF. It was the property of Ernst II, last reigning Duke of Sachsen-Altenburg (1871-1955) who was a Leutnant in 1GRzF at the beginning of his military career, During WW1 he was Head of JR153 and JB12 and later took command, as a General, of the 8th Infanterie Division.

I don't know about the star shown by Steve. The background of the Black Eagle looks dark and plain, while it should be gold in colour and striped horizontally. The eagle wears a red crown. Another variation?

 

[argonne]

I agree with most interventions here...Nothing wrong on the star presented.
Philippe

 

[seagull]

Thank you Bruno, I looked a lot closer and the background to the eagle is indeed gold coloured and horizontally ridged - BUT, pretty filthy. There is not much room but I got a toothpick into the gap and dislodged some dust/dirt showing both the colour and ridged texture. I'll try using a toothbrush and just a touch of solvent to clean it up. This pushes me towards believing in it, though I still don't like the rather messy pattern of feathers on the eagle. Thanks (yet) again.
Steve

 

[911car]

Thank you Bruno, I looked a lot closer and the background to the eagle is indeed gold coloured and horizontally ridged - BUT, pretty filthy. There is not much room but I got a toothpick into the gap and dislodged some dust/dirt showing both the colour and ridged texture. I'll try using a toothbrush and just a touch of solvent to clean it up. This pushes me towards believing in it, though I still don't like the rather messy pattern of feathers on the eagle. Thanks (yet) again.
Steve

Thank you for the information, Steve. The black eagle of yours may look indeed slightly more "cartoonesque" (an older fabrication perhaps; is it very flat? Thickness grew in years) but after what you wrote as regards the background I am convinced yours is genuine too.

 

[seagull]

The eagle is slightly domed but not dramatically so, the overall dome effect is mostly in the backing star. Eagle thickness is definitely less than 1mm proud of the ridged background. I'm a little surprised that it could be genuine, the star plus the EM eagle wappen cost me so little!

 

[CLOVIS 57]

This is yet another example demonstrating the absolute necessity of being able to access the back of the plates for proper assessment. Here, the thickness of the Garde-Stern, at least 1 to 2 mm, indicates electroplating. The result is crude and incompatible with the quality expected of a Guard officer's star. The "sawing" marks on the edge are unacceptable, as is the anthracite appearance.


Compare it to the finesse and quality of a press-stamped image.:


This is a star stamped from a 0.5mm sheet of nickel silver!!! and treated with Berlin white or silver or nickel plated. Here the star's rays are at the back as well as at the front!
Once again, one must be vigilant and perceptive, suspicious and meticulous...

 

[seagull]

Well I can't say I am surprised by your judgement Clovis, in my naivete I saw only what I thought was a rather thick cast silver plated brass star and didn't realise that that was an impossibility - this is the first 'officer' star I have ever owned so please forgive my gullibility, I have never collected Officer haubes!!
I am not disappointed, the front elements of the star are really well made and frankly I am impressed at the workmanship of those parts, also the star and the eagle wappen cost me less than £150 so, considereing that the wappen is definitely genuine I still think I got a reasonable deal - one good wappen and a lesson learned for so little seems fair to me.
Many thanks to all who have looked at it, where would we all be without your knowledge?
Steve

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Hello Steve,
I am very happy to be able to share my experience of over 50 years collecting and studying German imperial headdresses. I started at age 10... and I'm about to turn 71...

 

[seagull]

Sad to say I started my haube journey at a much later age- 48! 30 years on I'll never catch up to you or the other guys. Makes me appreciate this forum even more.