Helmet Plate ID Help

R

redoctober222

New member
I have been unable to identify this plate but assume it to be Prussian. It is similar to the one used by the Dragoon's but not exact. I would appreciate any help!

http://www.ssb6.net/users/28982/jy03-0023.jpg
 
Hello

Guard eagle, without the holes for the star.

Good crepros like it can sometimes be found on ebay.



\:D/ \:D/ \:D/
 
It certainly looks like the M15 Grenadier Eagle except for the lack of "koenig"on the Eagle's breast. I have been unable to find any reference to this plate. It came attached to a pickelhaube which was in awful condition, the plate was the only item worth salvaging.
 
Well here is a new one! I have to look this up -- is its steel? Is it magnetic?

George here is a picture of the Grenadine Eagle. Remember all the arguments about the S. hilt on the sword versus the bowtie? This one has a chicken on a stick.

The only example we have a Grenadier Eagle on our M15 list is:
grenadierM15JR92.jpg

greneagle.jpg
 
May we see a picture of back please? Do you have any pictures of the helmet was on? Round base cruciform base? Front visor shape? If you send me the pictures I will post them. As it is magnetic then it is not German silver at all...
 
JR92 said:
Guard eagle, without the holes for the star.
Click to expand...

I agree; M15 Garde, but for some reason, no star. The gap on the chest is where it would go. Perhaps this was pressed into use as a Grenadier Wappen? If only that BA would have known that 90 years later collectors would be debating it....

fgh02a.jpg
 
Hello,
I have also one plate in this eagle style, so maybe I can help with some pictures!?

I bought this eagle (some months) ago on ebay.com, the discription was: plate from the IR145.
(I think) this is not correct and so I bought this plate (for a cheap price) as an example.
[Eye-catching was: the three splints on the back! (copy alert ;-) and the color (a lot of red , inside more yellow).]

Yesterday, I was sitting with some collectors together and I shown him the eagle, they think the eagle is good! ;-o
Thin plate, clear and full of fine details, no cut-outs (so there guess: not a galvano / electrocoating process copie). Maybe a private plate!?

But I have my doubts - I know some really good Galvano-copies (last year I bought some Galvano-copies from a shoulderboard),
they are very, very good and it is very, very hard to see that these pieces are copies (if you don't know the copy)!

So I'm confused, what I have to think about this eagle!

Here the measurements: weight: 45 Gramm and ca. 16 cm and 11cm high.

So one is sure; this is not a grenadier eagle! (IR92, redoctober222, Tony & Kaiser are right).

Gardeadler:
- Schwert mit gerader Parierstange (sword with straight cross guard)
- Gardeszepter [kleiner Gardeadler oben drauf] (scepter with garde-eagle on the top [eagle on stick!] ;-))
- schmaler Schwanzstoß (small eagle-tail)
- Enden des Bandeau weissen nach oben (endings of the bandeau going upside)
- Bandeau geht über die Adlerbrust (Bandeau over the the Eagle's breast)

Grenadieradler:
- Schwert mit geschwungener Parierstange (sword with rounded cross guard)
- Kurbrandenburgisches Szepter [Akanthusblüte] (brandenburgian scepter with acanthus-flower)
- breiter Schwanzstoß (wide eagle-tail)
- Enden des Bandeau weissen nach unten (endings of the bandeau going downside)
- Band geht über die Adlerbrust (Bandeau is over the the Eagle's breast)

You can call it: a garde-eagle without a star. But nobody knows is it an original or not! ;-)
Hopefully somebody will solve this problem! ;-)
Thank you and best regards,
Jens

(p.s.: sorry about my poor (kraut-) english! I hope it's understandable! ;-)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/2qk33w
http://www.sendspace.com/file/2qk33w

http://www.sendspace.com/file/2qk33w
http://www.sendspace.com/file/wjqle7

http://www.sendspace.com/file/1c6xom
http://www.sendspace.com/file/1c6xom

http://www.sendspace.com/file/re587l
http://www.sendspace.com/file/re587l

Grenadier:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/9v0tqj
http://www.sendspace.com/file/9v0tqj

(hhhm, sorry the Link doesn't work - maybe some can put the pictures into the thread!? Thanks!)
 
Hello,

Thanks to t KIR.
Same advice from me.

A lot of theses eagles were sold on Ebay.
One of the seller explained me, these eagles where years 1930 made, with goriginal dies.
They are so fine than orginals of WW1.
They have 3 solded pins on back.


And I think, I know the Mle 15 felt grenadier helmet above. That's not the same eagle !


T \:D/ \:D/ \:D/
 
Tony & Kaiser said:
JR92 said:
Guard eagle, without the holes for the star.
Click to expand...

I agree; M15 Garde, but for some reason, no star. The gap on the chest is where it would go. Perhaps this was pressed into use as a Grenadier Wappen? If only that BA would have known that 90 years later collectors would be debating it....

fgh02a.jpg
Click to expand...

We've seen so many things done in the name of war time expediency, it probably WAS used as a substitute as a Grenadier Eagle. What the contractor had on hand to fill an order in a hurry. With an uberzug on the helmet, who would guess anyway, nicht war?

T

That is such a sweet M15!

Geo
 
Hello

We've seen so many things done in the name of war time expediency, it probably WAS used as a substitute as a Grenadier Eagle. What the contractor had on hand to fill an order in a hurry. With an uberzug on the helmet, who would guess anyway, nicht war?
Click to expand...

Sure !

But why are there 3 pins ?

\:D/ \:D/ \:D/
 
And I think, I know the Mle 15 felt grenadier helmet above. That's not the same eagle !
Click to expand...
That is your helmet! And it is not the same eagle. Yours is the only m15 grenadier eagle that I have ever seen. This one is trying to be a Grenadier Eagle but it's nothing like the other Grenadier Eagles that's what I was trying to show. I like your explanation. I have no idea why there would be three pins on the back. The only helmets that I even think had those were police and firemen -- the 1930 story is very interesting but I wonder why? What did they use these for? :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
JR92 said:
Hello

We've seen so many things done in the name of war time expediency, it probably WAS used as a substitute as a Grenadier Eagle. What the contractor had on hand to fill an order in a hurry. With an uberzug on the helmet, who would guess anyway, nicht war?
Click to expand...

Sure !

But why are there 3 pins ?

\:D/ \:D/ \:D/
Click to expand...

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I was referring to the original wappen:

http://www.ssb6.net/users/28982/jy03-0023.jpg

Recently some body posted links (you tube) with old newsreel footage of WW I German Veterans marching in Parades in the 1930's, even Mackensen was in at least one of them. Those plates might have been manufactured for those veterans that did not have originals to wear?
 
Thanks for all the help! Here is a view of the back of the plate as well as some pics of the helmet it was on...The plate only has 2 pins and not three as the one above! Sorry bout the quality but as you can see, the helmet is in awful condition!

http://www.ssb6.net/users/28982/plate_back.jpg

http://www.ssb6.net/users/28982/plate_back2.jpg

http://www.ssb6.net/users/28982/helmet2.jpg

http://www.ssb6.net/users/28982/helmet3.jpg

http://www.ssb6.net/users/28982/helmet4.jpg
 
Hi,
©IR92: "... One of the seller explained me, these eagles where years 1930 made, with goriginal dies. They are so fine than orginals of WW1. ..."

... ah - very interesting! thx

©joerookery: "... the 1930 story is very interesting but I wonder why? What did they use these for?"
©Wyliecoyote"... Veterans marching in Parades in the 1930's, even Mackensen was in at least one of them. Those plates might have been manufactured for those veterans that did not have originals to wear?"

Yes could be, also in the 30th, every Reichswehr-Rgt. had his own (Prussian, etc.)-Traditionsregiment. They made a lot of Parades! Maybe they need it also for this!??

... and sorry! I don't want to teach somebody! It is not so easy for me to fine the right words (terms) in a foreign-language. ;-)
Thanks and best regards, :salute:
Jens
 
Jens your language is about perfect! Everyone understands everything you say -- many of us use English-language idioms that must be so difficult for you like chicken on a stick. I think we all value everything you said. I love learning so teach away!! Tony sent me the pictures to post:

helmet.jpg

helmet2.jpg

helmet3.jpg

helmet4.jpg

plate%20back.jpg

plate%20back2.jpg
 
As Joe said, Jens, please do not apologize for writing in a different language. Wenn ich Deutsches schreibe, müssen Leute denken, dass ich 6 Jahre alt bin, ja?

If this M15 relic is in fact IR145, note that the loops for the eagle Wappen are far apart on the Wappen and helmet shell, as they would be on a normal Grenadier or Garde M15. Only on the M1895 converted to the swept-wing eagle in 1913, should you find close-together loops to fit the holes of the replaced Line Eagle Wappen.
 
Hello

Incredible ! :-? :-? :-?

It seems to be an original !!!

Joerookery, Tony and Kaiser, Dr Bruno and other friends, help me !
I'm getting a nervous breakdown !




\:D/ \:D/ \:D/
 
I took the liberty of copying Tony's original picture and posting it here to make it easy -- Tony if you object let me know and I will remove it.
front.jpg


It seems to be an original !!!
Click to expand...

:evil3: :evil3: :evil3:

goodness this is special! Tony thank you for sharing this! What will we do with this now? The only surviving example? Gus would say that looks like my good helmets :violent1:
 
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