Help identifying brass helmet with no markings

I

imroscoe

New member
My father has two old helmets I'm trying to identify.

HELMET #1: PICKELHAUBE -- IDENTIFIED
Thanks to the many great resources like this site and www.kaisersbunker.com I quickly determined helmet #1 is an M15 Baden Pickelhaube, dated 1916 and stamped JR170 (Badisches Infantry Regiment Number 170). How interesting!

HELMET #2: BRASS HELMENT, NEED HELP
This one has me running in Google circles for hours and coming up empty-handed. It's a brass helmet with crown ridge and identical visors at each end, single fabrication (crown ridge is integral, not attached separate piece), very plain and completely unadorned, unpainted. The only marking is a stamp under one visor, partially obliterated by a repair, as follows:
MAGIRUS
LM A/D

I don't know how to include pictures here, so I posted them on photobucket at:
http://s349.photobucket.com/albums/q388/rmeisner66/Brass%20helmet/

I've received a suggestion of this being a French fire helmet, or perhaps a Feuerwehr Helmet? But I can't find anything quite like it on the web.

Any help or direction that anybody can provide would be wonderful, thank you.

BONUS QUESTION: LION HEAD SWORD
By the way, there is a lion-head sword I'm working to identify better too, at http://s349.photobucket.com/albums/q388/rmeisner66/Lionhead%20sword/. No identifying marks except the "____ Solingen" hand-etched in script on the spine of the blade. Comments very much welcomed!

Thanks all,
Ross
 
Hey Ross,
I am unable to view the photos, but from the discription of the 2nd helmet, I would agree that it is a French fireman's helmet, OOPS the photos loaded,
It is a German fireman's helmet, the city is ULM A/D Ulm is acity in southern Germany, and it is on the Donau river (A/D = an Donau, it means the city is on the Danube river)
Best wishes
Gus
 
Always glad to help out a fellow Minnesotan!!!!

Gus nailed the brass helmet!

I would love to see photo's of the Baden helmet you have!

The sword is a Pre WWI Prussian Artillary sword. A very nicee one with either sharkskin or ray skin grip, nice owners mongram on the langet. I would call this a Jawless lionhead sword.

I am going with Prussian as it appears to be a Prussian eagle on the blade. Crossed cannons on the langet make it Artillary.

Has nice single fuller Heavy blade on it!

This is a very nice early sword.

Congrats

James
 
You guys are awesome, thanks for insights and quick responses!

First, the Baden Pickelhaube photos are at:
http://s349.photobucket.com/albums/q388/rmeisner66/Pickelhaube/
I'd love any comments on it. The interior is in bad shape, exterior leather has lost luster and is damaged (crazed?) especially on visors.

As for the brass fire helmet, I'm thrilled to have an answer. Any idea why I can't find anything about them on the web? Are they so common as to be uninteresting to collectors?

And the sword: thanks so much for the info, I'm a total beginner with this stuff. Since Minnesota Slim and I'm sure many others are knowledgable on this stuff, can I ask some detailed (and perhaps basic) questions?
A) Does the hand-etched "____ Solingen" on the blade spine mean anything? (see photos) I've learned about WKC Solingen being a German sword manufacturer, but why would it be etched in this casual manner? Is it someone trying to make the sword appear something it's not?
A2) Can anyone identify the first word etched on the spine?
B) Does "single fuller" mean just one 'groove' on the blade, even though their is one groove on each side?
B2) What does "Heavy" blade mean? (total sword length is 38.5")
C) Does the fact that the blade is not sharp at all mean it was just a dress sword?
D) The knuckle guard has a knight's helment/torso on it, under which is a three-pointed shape I can not identify. The photo kinda shows it. Any idea what that shape is, and do these icons have any significance?
E) All the pictures of lionhead swords I've found on the web do not have square langets. Any significance to the shape of the langet?
F) Do you think the scabbard is "as is" or was it once painted and later brushed down to the metal? Any way I could tell?
G) How can I distingquish between shark and ray skin grip?

OK, that's enough, I've learned a ton already and if you can help with any of the above, it would be great. I'm loving digging into this window to the past, sitting in my very own hands...

Thanks,
Ross
 
Hey Ross,
The reason you cna not find much about the fireman's helmet is that they were fairly common, and there was very little standard in their construction, but there are people who are interested in them.

I do not do much with swords, so I can not answer most of the questions, but the best way to tell shark skin from ray is to taste it, the shark skin has a fishyer tast than the ray, but then you would have to have a sword with ray skin to compair it to the taste of the shark skin, and then you would also have to know what they were or you might be compairing two shark skin grips, so, maybe you had better not taste it after all.

Best wishes
Gus
 
Ross: Nice sword. The sword is a Prussian Artillery Lion Head saber. This particular style was referred to as the "Wachmeistermodell" . The following photograph illustrates an issue example with plain blade.

sworda1ab6.jpg

Reservist1
 
Ross- lets answer some more of your questions:

A) The Etching on the spine with Solingen after it. this is a makers mark or most likely a distributers mark. Would need a better photo of the first word to make it out. There where many, many makers of edged weapons, and many distributers as well. A better photo should shed the light on this. is there any marks hidden under the langet on the blade?

B) Single fuller does mean one groove on the blade on each side, there are others that have double grooves on each side, called double fullers.

b2) Heavy blade means it is not a standard thinner blade for dress, this is a heavier combat type blade, even though it is not sharpened, this is a very nice blade.

C) by this time period very few swords where used in combat anymore, so they where purchased for dress. the buyer depending on how much he wanted to spend could pick from many options.

D) do not have the offical answer on this question, I have many with this motif, my guess is again, when purchasing the sword, the buyer would pick from options.

e) Square langet, again I think this was a option for the buyer, I usually see this squared type on earleir swords, very nice!

f) I think the scabbered is just fine and the way it came, never painted.


Hope this helps

James
 
Hey Ross and James,
Going back on bayonet knowledge, if the sword is fullered, it is a thrusting weapon, not a slashing weapon, and should not be sharpened, as a bayonet should not be sharp, the reason I was told by a friend who was a bayonet instructor in WWI, was because a sharp bayonet would cut into the ribs and get stuck.
You are lucky this sword is not sharpened, as sharpening would greatly reduce the value.
Best wihses
Gus
 
Ross: The same pattern saber as yours is illustrated in the 1905 WKC Catalog. The reference, Swords of Germany 1900/1945, by John R. Angolia contains a reprint of this catalog. The sword is pictured on page 371.

There may be a makers trademark on the side of the blade under the langet. If present, these marks can be difficult to see due to the langet. Try illuminating the area under the langets with a flashlight. WKC used several different trademarks, the most common being a helmeted knight's head next to a crowned head above the letters WK&C. The WKC mark can also be just the helmeted knight or just the crowned head.
The helmeted knight's head on the guard may also be indicative of WKC production.

Reservist1
 
Fascinating info, thanks folks for sharing your expertise. I'm checking with the library to see if they have a opy of the Swords of Germany book, that will be fun to see.

I have carefully examined the blade under the langets with a flashlight, there are no marks that I can see.

If anyone would like to see any further pictures or details, just let me know. Thanks again!

Ross
 
Swords of Germany will most likely not be in any Public library!

Harder book to find and will run around $100 on Ebay.

Good book to have.

James
 
Thanks James, I guess I'm getting better info here that I would from the book.

I took some more pictures of the sword, specifically trying to discern three things:
1. the etched word before "Solingen"
2. the icons on the knuckleguard.
3. Some blade engraving that appears to be vines in the shape of an "R" with a small "W" under it. This design is just under the crown on the obverse side in picture titled 'letters?'.
http://s349.photobucket.com/albums/q388/rmeisner66/Lionhead%20sword/

If anyone cares to look, I once again would appreciate any opinions.
Thanks!
Ross
 
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