Help Needed From Our Uniform Regulation Experts!

[Jvpi]

Hello,

Today I encountered a tricky uniform question regarding the Galawachtanzug of the Prussian Garde du Corps.
How exactly was the officer's Degentasche worn? Attached by hooks or some kind of extra belt that goes under the gala vest? If by hooks, where are these hooks? Not likely on Koller or vest IMO. If it's the latter, the officer will be wearing three different belts: an under tunic sword belt, a sash and this belt attaching the Degentasche. 3 belts seem a bit much to me. I have already checked six reference books, but with no luck in finding the answer, including the VM cavalry volume. I'm hoping that an explanation can be found in the original regulations, decrees/orders.

The enlisted men's Säbeltasche is clearly attached to their belts by two thin white straps, mentioned in references and can be proved by many period photos. However, the officer's counterpart is a mystery to me. Full-length photos exist extremely rarely as well. Thank you in advance to anyone who can help!

Best regards,
Jvpi

 

[Jvpi]

Multiple illustrations show that the Degentasche should go between the Koller and the vest. But how? I unfortunately is very lack of images of the originals.
No doubt these drawings are accurate. This one is clearer to see.

 

[Khukri]

-as the Unterschnallkoppel/under tunic sword belt-is the only real belt; it would have held the Degen and the Säbeltasche.
-Not attached to the Schärpe nor to the Bandelier. IMO.

This little booklet "Die Tradition" by Kube. #62; March 2003 has very nice PICTURES on this special unit.
-for Galawachdienst just two Officers were commanded: in general a Oberleutnant and a Rittmeister.

Yet another belt added to the Unterschnallkoppel.... invisible....would indeed make no sense. IMO

Regards,
Francis

 

[Jvpi]

Regards,
Francis

Hi Francis,

Thank you very much for your reply! The problem with Unterschnallkoppel is that it goes under the tunic and is worn around the lower waist. The Degentasche is above the tunic but under the vest, also in a much higher position, so it is impossible to be attached IMO. This is exactly why it confuses me.
I did check this Mr. Kube's booklet, in many ways very helpful, including the pictures, but unfortunately there's no mention of this detail...too..

 

[Jvpi]

 

[Khukri]

Ok, of course. Mystery...
-here some stuff from J-L. Larcade's personal archive binder.
-not answering the question...but I like it.
Regards!
Francis

 

[Jvpi]

-here some stuff from J-L. Larcade's personal archive binder.

Top reference, do you know who got the rest of his binders?
By that time I was only able to afford a few of them, I eventually bought 4 and they are perfect.

 

[Khukri]

PM-ed you.

 

[Jvpi]

PM-ed you.

 

[kuerassier]

Interesting question.

 

[Jvpi]

Interesting question.

Hi Olaf,

Thank you very much for the photo! Great it actually showed those rings for slings.
I think this means it was indeed worn on a separate Unterschnallkoppel between vest and Koller. Hopefully this can be confirmed by written references.

Best regards,
Jvpi

 

[JzPf]

Jvpi, I believe you are correct, the degentasche likely attaches to the unterschnallkoppel via three straps along with the sword hangers. The OR model uses brass clips that attach to the belt. The early OR model took two white straps, the later took three white and red straps.
Cheers,
Dennis

 

[Jvpi]

Jvpi, I believe you are correct

Hi Dennis, yes, this seems to be the only possible method to me at last. So the officer was wearing three "belts" at the same time. I'm amazed that this did not cause the sash or waist to look like it was "swelled".

 

[JzPf]

Hi Dennis, yes, this seems to be the only possible method to me at last. So the officer was wearing three "belts" at the same time. I'm amazed that this did not cause the sash or waist to look like it was "swelled".

Here’s a thought, perhaps there are hooks/clips on the inside of the vest that correspond to the rings on top of the degentasche?

 

[Jvpi]

Here’s a thought

I actually thought about that, but from my own experience of wearing a hussar's sabretasche, I’d say the weight of it will cause the vest strain to the left.