Help to restore a JzP helmet extra parts available for trade

MMHM

New member
Hi and thanks for letting me join. I run a small museum in Michigan and we recently came into possession of a pretty messed up JzP shell. The sum of the parts appear to be good, just not for this helmet. So, perhaps someone here could use some of what we have in exchange for some of what we need? Here is what we have. What we need would be the proper spike, wappen, chin strap and kokarden if these are not correct?

Thank you, Scott.
 

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You are right. The pieces you show are not correct for Jpz.
I'm looking for the spike in photos and the couple of prussian cocades.
I need to check if I have any parts you are looking for.
Later when I get home from work. Do you eventually sell the items?
Zeb.
 
You are right. The pieces you show are not correct for Jpz.
I'm looking for the spike in photos and the couple of prussian cocades.
I need to check if I have any parts you are looking for.
Later when I get home from work. Do you eventually sell the items?
Zeb.
Its possible that we may sell the parts in the future, right now we would like to try and save the helmet by trading for what we need. Thanks for checking. Scott
 
I agree with @Pontiac9999 , a picture of the helmet would let us know more about the parts you need. Is it an M15 with grey fittings, or an M95 with gilt trim for instance. I do know grey fittings, especially the wappen for an M15 one are almost like hen's teeth, you can search a long time and still won't find one.
 
Here is the shell. This helmet belonged to a museum Board member of ours and he passed away back in Feb. Supposedly his Uncle brought it home with the hardware shown??? While he was not a collector, he was a really good guy and we would love to restore it to be displayable in the museum. Truthfully, with no markings at all on the shell, I have my doubts about its origins. I am wondering if his Uncle brought the parts home and the Nephew added the shell later? I will never know for sure, but if all is good, we would like to save it. If not, then our Board will decide what to do... Thanks! Scott
 

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Here is the shell. This helmet belonged to a museum Board member of ours and he passed away back in Feb. Supposedly his Uncle brought it home with the hardware shown??? While he was not a collector, he was a really good guy and we would love to restore it to be displayable in the museum. Truthfully, with no markings at all on the shell, I have my doubts about its origins. I am wondering if his Uncle brought the parts home and the Nephew added the shell later? I will never know for sure, but if all is good, we would like to save it. If not, then our Board will decide what to do... Thanks! Scott
That shell, looks a lot like a Kurassier helmet, probably even a Lachmann, but the picture of the inside is quite blurred. It is not a JzPf one though.
All things I see, let me think it's a Kurassier one, the spike base and remains of the spike shows that. There should be markings in the top of the inside of the helmet, where the spike is fixed. Or, on one of the sides, where the kokarden were situated. Also, you might find a mark on the trim on the rear edge, the trim of it.
 
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That shell, looks a lot like a Kurassier helmet, probably even a Lachmann, but the picture of the inside is quite blurred. It is not a JzPf one though.
All things I see, let me think it's a Kurassier one, the spike base and remains of the spike shows that. There should be markings in the top of the inside of the helmet, where the spike is fixed. Or, on one of the sides, where the kokarden were situated. Also, you might find a mark on the trim on the rear edge, the trim of it.
Thanks and yes, I have checked for markings and will attach a better picture of the inside. I found no marks at all which is why I thought that perhaps the Uncle brought the hardware and the Nephew got an early repro?
 

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Well, to me it seems to be an original helmet, but the parts do not belong, some do, and some do not. It looks to me a helmet that was played with for a very long time by kids, was bought by your member of the museum some time ago, he tryed to bring it back.
To restore this helmet, will cost a lot..liner is missing, some parts belong but most do not. I do not think this is a repro helmet though.
But to bring it back to it's original state, well, thats up to you guy's. Most members here, will think the same, a parts helmet, but restoring it will cost more than buying a nice one.

Regards, Coert.
 
Well, to me it seems to be an original helmet, but the parts do not belong, some do, and some do not. It looks to me a helmet that was played with for a very long time by kids, was bought by your member of the museum some time ago, he tryed to bring it back.
To restore this helmet, will cost a lot..liner is missing, some parts belong but most do not. I do not think this is a repro helmet though.
But to bring it back to it's original state, well, thats up to you guy's. Most members here, will think the same, a parts helmet, but restoring it will cost more than buying a nice one.

Regards, Coert.
Thanks Coert, I am not too worried about the liner as it would not be seen. What we would like is to trade parts we have (above) for parts we need. Can you tell me what we have that belongs? Also, is it a kurrasier? Thank you, Scott.
 
Hey Scott,

Yeah..., that thing is "helmet salad" for sure!

Not poking fun at it, or you. It isn't entirely uncommon for a helmet to have incorrect parts. It happened a lot back in the distant past when the sum of these parts had low value, and even lower collector interest or knowledge. Stuff got cobbled together...

From the photos you have provided, it looks like a pre-1889 style Enlisted Kurrasier shell. It has a ridge running down the back of the crown, and has a stepped visor.

It also has small holes on the sides for the screws which would typically be used to secure the enlisted chinstrap of the type used on this model.

It has the added edge trim modification adopted in 1867 over the ear, but the shell is very tall, which is odd.

My experience with this type of earlier Kurrasier helmet is limited, but just about all of them that I have seen have brass/tomback trim around the edges of the front and back brim and over the ears.

Your example has silver trim, but the rivets are brass? It does not make sense to me unless there is something specific to a certain Regiment that used this type of trim that I am not aware of...

Honestly, when I first saw the trim and the height of the crown of the shell, I thought it might be a fake Indian made helmet shell. I am still kind of halfway thinking it may be a recently made fake shell. I would need to almost look at this in-hand to tell.

If this is an early officer's helmet shell rather than enlisted, and I am incorrect in my summation, then I hope another more experienced member here will correct me. It has what appears to be an officer's spike base attached to the top...

I do not want to send you down the wrong path!

It might benefit you and your museum to have one of your staff docents check out Kaiser's Bunker at www.kaisersbunker.com

It is run by Captain Tony Schnurr, one of the most knowledgeable and helpful Senior member of this Site here at pickelhaubes.com

If you go there, your docent should be able to quickly identify the parts that you have in order to allay confusion as you go through the process of trading.

You will find Kurrasier and Jager zu Pherd helmets there, both officer and enlisted, from all periods of production.

If you are going to use your shell as your basis for this restoration for your museum's display, then you have your work cut out for you. It has issues, such as the hardware store screws holding the front brim on, which you have highlighted in your photos. If that brim is original to the helmet, then you would probably want that repaired.

Brian Loree here onthis site does excellent repair work, for a fee, and can give you advice in the "pickelhaube restoration" section on what would be needed to fix this.

Bryan.
 
No worries and I cannot get offended at something that was free. Like I said, if it was possible we wanted to save it but if not, then it just goes through our Board to make a decision on disposal. The parts will likely end up on eBay if they decide to get rid of it as that is the general process. I am with you on the shell as there are no markings at all and while not an expert, some of it just didn't seem right... Thanks for the advice and the contacts, I will wait and see if any of the members you mentioned chime in. Scott
 
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Spent some time at the museum today with a few of our Board members. While working on a separate project we discussed the above helmet and parts and the general consensus was to sell it all as parts. So, before I mess anything up I am hoping that you all can help me one more time? If possible, can someone identify each of the individual pieces I have correctly? I think I have a guard wappen? Prussian cockades, not sure on the scales, someone mentioned the spike being Hessian and then the tricky part. The consensus here is that the helmet shell and spike base is a Kurrasier? When I look at others here on the forum I see what is being said about the helmet shell and front brim but to me the spike base looks like a JzP which was why I initially put that in the title. So, should I leave it as is or remove the spike base? Finally, are there any of the parts that should stay with the helmet when we sell it and what is a fair price for these parts and the shell? All opinions are sought and as I mentioned above, we have nothing invested in this so no feelings will be hurt with your answers. We truly appreciate the help and I would be happy to offer the parts here to the members if desired and a fair deal can be had for the museum. We are Michigan's Military Heritage Museum and can be found at mimhm.com or at michigan military heritage museum on Facebook if you want to check us out. We are all volunteers so all fund raised support the museum as we receive no State of federal funding. Thank you all for the assistance and your expertise. Scott
 
Hi and thanks for letting me join. I run a small museum in Michigan and we recently came into possession of a pretty messed up JzP shell. The sum of the parts appear to be good, just not for this helmet. So, perhaps someone here could use some of what we have in exchange for some of what we need? Here is what we have. What we need would be the proper spike, wappen, chin strap and kokarden if these are not correct?

Thank you, Scott.

Someone would give their "eye teeth" in order to own that Hessian spike shown in your first posting. The spike has nothing to do with the JzP or Kurassier officer helmet shell.

Same with the guard eagle. The two kokardes are not for this helmet shell either.

The helmet shell is an officer shell, and thus would not be a "Lachmann" marked shell.

The shell has been messed with. Sadly someone put a machine screw on one side of the front visor.
 
Yes two machine screws... As I mentioned, all of the parts will be available, just want to get a fair price or trade for the museum. Thank you for the quick response. Scott
 
Its possible that we may sell the parts in the future, right now we would like to try and save the helmet by trading for what we need. Thanks for checking. Scott

The possibility is about 0% that you would ever find a correct original JzP or Kurassier officer spike on the loose to restore this helmet. The German eBay seller "spikehelmetsberlin" has reproduction parts. I believe she sells a copy officer spike that might work for this helmet.

And finding original "kleeblaten" will be near impossible to find on the loose as well. Most likely a person will have to settle for reproduction kleeblaten. (The cloverleaf shaped bosses that hold the chinscales on to the helmet). An original set of officer screws to hold the kleeblaten and chinscales in place will be near impossible to find as well.

Officer kokardes for this type of helmet are extremely difficult to find on the loose as well. They are not the typically found leather spike helmet officer kokardes that go on these metal officer helmets.

Never say never, but the odds are about as high as winning the lottery to find several of the parts for this helmet shell. I'm normally not this pessimistic, but I feel that I'm being realistic in stating this to you.

Your Hessian spike would likely bring $500 to your museum from someone who needs one for a Hessian officer helmet restoration project.

Best Wishes,

Alan
 
The possibility is about 0% that you would ever find a correct original JzP or Kurassier officer spike on the loose to restore this helmet. The German eBay seller "spikehelmetsberlin" has reproduction parts. I believe she sells a copy officer spike that might work for this helmet.

And finding original "kleeblaten" will be near impossible to find on the loose as well. Most likely a person will have to settle for reproduction kleeblaten. (The cloverleaf shaped bosses that hold the chinscales on to the helmet). An original set of officer screws to hold the kleeblaten and chinscales in place will be near impossible to find as well.

Officer kokardes for this type of helmet are extremely difficult to find on the loose as well. They are not the typically found leather spike helmet officer kokardes that go on these metal officer helmets.

Never say never, but the odds are about as high as winning the lottery to find several of the parts for this helmet shell. I'm normally not this pessimistic, but I feel that I'm being realistic in stating this to you.

Your Hessian spike would likely bring $500 to your museum from someone who needs one for a Hessian officer helmet restoration project.

Best Wishes,

Alan
Thank you Alan and I appreciate the valuation on the spike. As mentioned when I have a decent idea of the values of whats here, I will be happy to offer everything here on the forum. The museum can use the money for a different project and hopefully some helmets can be restored properly with the parts. I appreciate the time. Scott
 
Never say you'll never get it. But unfortunately the parts for exchange are not interesting for me. I wouldn't try to restore the helmet either.
 

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The preservation of history can be worth it in the end, I will keep my eyes out for parts and would be more than happy to help with the work.
 
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