help with chin scales--please

G

gregM

New member
Hi Guys,
Some of the helmets I have been asking about have recieved comments
about having the wrong style (flat/vaulted) scales on the chin straps.

I realise I have no clue knowing which helmets should have which style.
I am sure someday I will but first things first.---Can someone please
explain the difference to me and possible either post some pictures
or direct me to threads that might teach me the difference.

Thanks,
Greg
 
Greg that is a great question! Let me say originally that there is kind of an easy way, but it just does not work all the time. There are rounded chin scales, and there are flat ones. Some are very rounded and some are very flat. Sometimes it is hard for me to tell the difference. The rule I use has to do with the Rosette. Round ones are for flat scales, and oval ones are for curved chin scales.

off_13.jpg

off_14.jpg


Sometimes I can't see oval from round :eek: :eek: :eek:

I am sure Tony has a great explanation of all this. I use this page to keep me straight:
http://www.pickelhauben.net/identity/Officer.htm
 
Hi Joe,
Thanks very much. I had kind of guessed that is what was ment
but I am a little slow so I need pictures. It's just like the difference between a flat or vaulted Iron cross.

Even though I do not plan on collecting Pickelhauben (I just want
one or possibly two) I am finding that I really enjoy the learning
aspect. Sometimes the search is a little overwhelming sence most
of the helmets that you guys trade in cost more than my car BUT
I still like the research.

Thanks again.
 
BUT
I still like the research.
Click to expand...

That is my favorite part! There were rules and norms and exceptions. It is hard enough to learn the rules if they are available but the exceptions will always keep you jumping! Then you have opinions that are often contrary. I find in the research that frequently my opinions change!
 
Hi Greg:

Your analogy to flat and vaulted iron crosses is an excellent one. These two examples, representing the Grand Duchy of Baden, help to illustrate further the information provided by Joe. I selected the following because their combination of silver and gilt fittings also ties into our recent discussion of the Württemberg helmet on eBay.

Example No. 1 is Baden Life-Grenadier Regiment 109

P1011075.jpg


P1011077.jpg


P1011079.jpg


Example No. 2 is Baden Dragoon Regiment 20/21

P1011073.jpg


P1011069.jpg


P1011070.jpg


This link will take you to Tony's invaluable discussion of the subject:

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/hp/chin.htm

Chas.
 
WOW--Thanks to all for posting some very nice examples for me
to drool over. That Baden Life-Grenadier is SWEET.

At some point I will need to learn which helmets were supposed to
have flat scales and which had vaulted.

Thanks again,
Greg
 
joerookery said:
//The rule I use has to do with the Rosette. Round ones are for flat scales, and oval ones are for curved chin scales.//
Click to expand...
While I have found this to be true for Cavalry helmets (Dragoner and Ulan) and anything Hessen, it's a different story with respect to Feldartillerie and, at least one, Bavarian Schweres Reiter/Chevauleger.

First, the Feldartillerie:

P1010503.jpg


P1011093.jpg


P1011095.jpg


The Schweres Reiter/Chevauleger:

P1011119.jpg


P1011097.jpg


Both these helmets are Depaheg manufacture; however, the Rosetten, albeit circular, display unique tooling. Another example of a Feldartillerie with round Rosetten can be found in Tony's most recent Bunker update:

http://kaisersbunker.com/dunkelblau/helmets/dbh48.htm

Chas.
 
joerookery said:
Let me say originally that there is kind of an easy way, but it just does not work all the time.
Click to expand...

Amen to that! There are anomalies -- quite a few. That's why these easy rules never work. Most of the field artillery helmets I have encountered have the oval rosettes, but not all.
wurtcockade.jpg


And when it comes to Bavaria, all bets are off. When Bavaria standardized to rounded chin scales. They did not standardize the rosettes, and it seems as though existing round stocks were used extensively.

Other anomalies come with colors -- I spent a long time looking for easy rules. What bothers me in the foot artillery/field artillery world is that I cannot always tell from looking at a photograph whether the chin scales are curved or not. :cool:
 
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