Help with identifying repo helmets over genuine items

AndyT

AndyT

New member
Hello folks,
as I mentioned in my 'hello' post, I would be posting here for myself and on behalf of a pal who has no meaningful internet - firmly in the dark age!
He does however have a rather nice collection of militaria, mainly firearms from mid 1800 - 1915 ish, he has started to branch into the area of military headgear and has jumped in with both feet and bought two Pickelhauben, whereas I'm still procrastinating on where to buy and what to start with...Prussian or one of the smaller states....
I bought him a few excellent books (as an early Xmas gift) from the James D Turinetti stable in an attempt to gain some insight before any potential costly errors are made....however that may have already occurred.
Reading through the books, we are still unable to say, yes these are original or very good reproductions.
Could I call upon the collective knowledge and have a 'yes' they are good, or 'no' they are bad (repro's), as he said to me, "it's much easier buying firearms!"

First up is what is touting to be a privately purchased Braunschweigisches Innanterie=Regiment (Nr.92)
What throws it for me is the wappen plate, although stamped looks to be too large for the helmet, the method of the Totenkopf attachment to the wappen plate, the type of spike attachement.
Everything is tight inside the helmet, it does not look as if it has been put together recently. We have used a UV lamp and there is nothing that glows, however that is not a 100% check for authenticity.











More here if required.
http://s78.photobucket.com/user/ATelford/library/Helmets?sort=3&page=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Next up is the one he does believe is original, an EM helmet. There are no stamps visible, the brass items look to have been blackened at some point, the strap may be a replacement as it looks quite thick. the lack of vent in the rear spine is our sticking point, we thought that only privately purchased/officers helmets did not have this feature. The spike attachment is a 'bayonet' type mounting and not a screw/threaded post.







Any advice, good or bad is much appreciated, of course if they are genuine he's going to be a happy man!

Many thanks in advance, have a great weekend.

Andrew
 
Thank you gentlemen for your honesty and expertise.
Could you point out some indicators as to what makes these items fake, so I can tell my friend what to look out for in the future.

Many thanks
Andrew
 
the shell of the first one apears to be one piece that is wrong , the have al front and rear visor stitched on
on this forum you can find a skull of reg 92 that is not a fake so compare that one with the one you shown us

the colours of ageing or wathever it is is deffenitly a no go
the first thing is buy several books and take these with you if you go to the fairs thatway you can compaire
it is all in the details touching smelling
the great advantidge of this forum is the latest find section
there you find a variaty of great honnest stuf
as on the ebay section thats mostly the opposite(fakes)
the more you look to those two sections the more you wil see diffrences
hopefully it gets you on the way
if you can buy one and you have doubts do not hesitate on sharing it here
it will help you on the right way and will save you from burning on it
otherwise its a waist of money

jonas
 
Both are really fake in every way...
Here's an original to compare... I think the differences are obvious...

Adler 1

 
The profiles of the shells themselves are the first indicators of fakery. The patination on the EM spike and base NEVER occur on originals. The ill-fitting liners are the next indicators. Then the small bits - sorta close but not right.
 
Welcome to the forum! (again, if I've already said so)

Most of us were fortunate in that these fakes weren't around when we started collecting and we learned by looking at originals at shows and in shops. Now it's not like that and some fakes are quite good and some honestly sold as replicas. Detail of the front plate or wappen is often a dead give-away, as are liners. Somebody worked awfully hard to counterfeit these with aging and such just to fool beginning collectors. If you're thinking of purchasing a helmet, it's a good idea to post it here for opinions. I've asked others for opinions on helmets and the feedback is always welcome.

:D Ron
 
Hi Andrew,

Welcome to the forum. I agree with the good advice given above.

Having a Pickelhaube in hand really helps to give you that feel of original vs fake. I was lucky enough that the father of a friend gave me a Pickelhaube he had in his militaria collection for my birthday. An M15 other ranks infantry model, refurbished during the war by BIA XVIII with Vulkanfiber front and rear visors, with an incorrect eagle on the front, reproduction chin strap and Kokarden, and slightly rotting interior. This was a superb gift for me, as it allowed me to study it for days on end, look at helmet shape, stitching, leather colour and thickness, and all the other details of a Pickelhaube that are difficult to all reproduce correctly. My point is that you don't need a pristine example to gain the experience. In addition, visit fairs so you can look at the Pickelhauben on sale and develop a feel for variations and / or reproductions.

And of course, this forum is the place to get good feedback on originality (even though we don't always get the answers we would like to hear :eek: )

Lars
 
Yes both are fakes made in India and chemically aged. The liners are all wrong....wrong materials, wrong stitching. One of the biggest "tells" is the lack of any crispness or definition/detail to the wappen and cockades, especially the first one. They look as if they have been melted in a microwave. Hopefully, we are not talking huge money here! The best free site to study pickelhauben is Tony Schnurr's The Kaisers Bunker. You need to spend hours there and get a feel for the real thing, he has a superbe collection of the very best originals you can buy. Last, above all, post pics or a link here to anything you are looking to buy! We will give free advice and perhaps save you money.
 
If you are really interested in haubes and perhaps considering to start a collection, its advisable to invest in good reference books. A good place to start is: http://www.kaisersbunker.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regards,

Edwin
 
Have a look at this list of reference books !

http://www.pickelhauben.net/books.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Francis
 
Thank you all very much gentlemen,
It has been an education, my friend was a little disappointed, after some discussion he decided not persue a refund and marked it down to a 'learning experience'. Promptly followed by the purchase of a couple of firearms to cheer himself up :D

The book purchase has commenced, hope fully some genuine articles will follow!

Thanks again.

Andrew.
 
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