Hessen haube
- Thread starter Westfront
- Start date
ww1czechlegion
Well-known member
What happened to the missing pearl ring from the neck of the spike base for this 25th Artillery Regiment helmet?
Otherwise it looks like another beautiful wartime helmet from this old New Jersey collection estate.
Best Regards,
Alan
Otherwise it looks like another beautiful wartime helmet from this old New Jersey collection estate.
Best Regards,
Alan
poniatowski
Well-known member
Shouldn't it also have a Kugel, or was that later than this manufacture?
Ron
Ron
ww1czechlegion
Well-known member
You're right Ron, my mistake. Thanks for pointing this out. =D> I was too focused on the missing pearl ring, and need to take my "blinders" off. 
In 1915 they added the Star of the Ludwig Order to the front plate for the 25th artillery regiment.
So yes, where is the ball top, and where is the pearl ring on the neck of the spike base?
These two Hessian helmets she's listed makes a person wonder a little if they are "parts" helmets put together by someone. Speculation on my part only :-k
All the Best,
Alan
In 1915 they added the Star of the Ludwig Order to the front plate for the 25th artillery regiment.
So yes, where is the ball top, and where is the pearl ring on the neck of the spike base?
These two Hessian helmets she's listed makes a person wonder a little if they are "parts" helmets put together by someone. Speculation on my part only :-k
All the Best,
Alan
poniatowski
Well-known member
If you're interested in this helmet, the seller will send photos of the back of the plate and helmet under the plate. Having seen them, all I can say is that there's a single hole in the middle of the lion's body that doesn't make any sense to me... maybe the former owner swapped plates with the 'beamte' helmet???? Who knows.
Ron
Ron
pointystuff
Active member
There's a Saxon Kugelhelm and a Prussian Tschapka listed, too...not to mention the 1842 helmet. :lol:
poniatowski
Well-known member
Couple of parts missing from the model 1842. I wonder if an owner in Germany would have been angered enough at the Kaiser to have cut off the crown and cross from the orb after WWI.. I suppose it's possible, but then why leave the crown on the little eagle? Cockade is also wrong; not a big deal, really.
I also see there's a repair to each wing of the wappen where the screws would be. There's a Kuerassier helmet with similar repairs in one of the reference books, but I don't recall which one. The question is, who did the repair, arsenal, an 1800's helmet dealer / shop, a later owner, who?
Ron
I also see there's a repair to each wing of the wappen where the screws would be. There's a Kuerassier helmet with similar repairs in one of the reference books, but I don't recall which one. The question is, who did the repair, arsenal, an 1800's helmet dealer / shop, a later owner, who?
Ron
poniatowski
Well-known member
$5,626.50.... :-k
Ron
Ron
ww1czechlegion
Well-known member
I'm curious what people thought this helmet was/is. Did the bidders think this was a Hessen General's helmet?
If it were to be a Hessen General's Helmet there are some current errors with the configuration:
1.) There is no pearl-ring on the neck of the spike, which should be on the helmet if it were to be a General's rank helmet. The General Rank helmets wore a pearl-ring on the neck of the spike base area, and after 1915 the 25th Field Artillery Regiment had a pearl-ring on the neck of the spike base area, along with the House Order Star with Crossed Swords. No other Hessian officer helmets had the pearl-ring on the neck of the spike base area.
2.) The Crossed Swords should not be on the House Order Star if it were to be a General's rank helmet, from what I understand.
3.) And of course if it were to be a 25th Field Artillery Officer Helmet, it should have a ball top, and not the fluted spike. The crossed swords and the addition of the House Order Star would be correct for a 25th F.A. Reg't helmet from 1915 onward.
So what is this helmet? Mixed up/a parts put-together?
Best Regards,
Alan
If it were to be a Hessen General's Helmet there are some current errors with the configuration:
1.) There is no pearl-ring on the neck of the spike, which should be on the helmet if it were to be a General's rank helmet. The General Rank helmets wore a pearl-ring on the neck of the spike base area, and after 1915 the 25th Field Artillery Regiment had a pearl-ring on the neck of the spike base area, along with the House Order Star with Crossed Swords. No other Hessian officer helmets had the pearl-ring on the neck of the spike base area.
2.) The Crossed Swords should not be on the House Order Star if it were to be a General's rank helmet, from what I understand.
3.) And of course if it were to be a 25th Field Artillery Officer Helmet, it should have a ball top, and not the fluted spike. The crossed swords and the addition of the House Order Star would be correct for a 25th F.A. Reg't helmet from 1915 onward.
So what is this helmet? Mixed up/a parts put-together?
Best Regards,
Alan
pointystuff
Active member
Maybe someone just stuck the star on there as an "upgrade" piece.
Earlier this week on eBay there was an EM Pickelhaube with an officer's visor cap cockade stuck on the bird's tail.
Earlier this week on eBay there was an EM Pickelhaube with an officer's visor cap cockade stuck on the bird's tail.
poniatowski
Well-known member
From what I've read in my reference books, the pearlring wasn't specified for Hessen general's helmets, so it's possible to have one without, but was for the 25th artillery. All of this helmet had me contacting other members to try to figure it out. For example, the 25th FA has the crossed swords because the LudwigOrden was presented in war time. Would a general be able to wear swords if he was promoted in war time? So, some mysteries there and the question was to gamble or not. Was this a low-grade wartime General's helmet???
Some of my conclusions:
1) I didn't like the extra hole in the plate... this made me wonder.
2) I didn't like the swords on the star, because we couldn't verify any generals having worn them, war time promotion or not (it's REALLY difficult to find photos of Hessen General's helmets, let alone the Generals themselves!).... maybe Joe has some!??
3) I didn't like the plain fittings, which didn't match the plate and seemed to be more of a low ranking private purchase upgrade.
All in all, after taking all of the plusses and minuses into account, I thought this helmet looked like a parts helmet.
However, until the questions were answered, I had an open mind. Since they weren't answered, I let others bid. However, it was a fun week of research and I thank everybody I contacted for your answers and help!
As with the 1842, I saw this and got all excited, jumped around a bit, clapped my hands, kissed my wife.... but then after looking closely and in this case doing a lot of checking.... [-(
Ron
Some of my conclusions:
1) I didn't like the extra hole in the plate... this made me wonder.
2) I didn't like the swords on the star, because we couldn't verify any generals having worn them, war time promotion or not (it's REALLY difficult to find photos of Hessen General's helmets, let alone the Generals themselves!).... maybe Joe has some!??
3) I didn't like the plain fittings, which didn't match the plate and seemed to be more of a low ranking private purchase upgrade.
All in all, after taking all of the plusses and minuses into account, I thought this helmet looked like a parts helmet.
However, until the questions were answered, I had an open mind. Since they weren't answered, I let others bid. However, it was a fun week of research and I thank everybody I contacted for your answers and help!
As with the 1842, I saw this and got all excited, jumped around a bit, clapped my hands, kissed my wife.... but then after looking closely and in this case doing a lot of checking.... [-(
Ron