Hessen Leibgarde Infanterie Regt 115 with problems

W

weirdpyramid

New member
This Hessen wappen at one time was probably the real deal but someone flipped it over, decided move stuff around and make it worthless. :angry7:

http://cgi.ebay.fr/Casque-a-pointe-115-eme-HESSOIS-1895-Prussien-Allemand-14-18-/120788219525?pt=FR_JG_Collections_Militaria_Uniformes&hash=item1c1f89f685#ht_500wt_951" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Yes, it is real too bad the plate has been broken and resoldered. The Korps stamp RBA 18 is totally correct....never seen an OR helme with that extra split brad going through the shell at edge of the front visor.
 
The back of the wappen has just seen too much tweaking and yes, what is that split brad thingy for?

The stamp totally throws me off though. :-k It would confirm that this is the "real deal" and it certainly has all the right pieces but I have never seen the wappen holes in the leather body that high up on one of these helmets.

This is my 115th helmet. Notice the holes are very far apart and more central on the helmet.
img0520hb.jpg
 
The tip of the spike arm on the Ebay helme does not come as far down the bandeau as yours does either. There are many explanations.... the position where the back loops were soldered, the size of the wappen, the height of the helmet shell, a different manufacturer etc. You would really have to have that wappen in your hands to figure out exactly what has been done on the reverse side. From what I see...the sword has been soldered back on as well as at least one wreath probably 2. Interesting that the bandeau is secured by split brads whereas on mine and most I have seen they are screw posts and square nuts. I have no doubt in my mind that the shell and the rest of the fittings are legitimate, no extra holes and correct RBA 18 mark. The wappen is the main concern here...is it an add on replacement, or broken and fixed crudely??
 
Hello,

Many post about that ugly thing.

Look here, from page 4.

http://lagrandeguerre.cultureforum.net/t44904p45-115-hessois-mod-1897" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
The 1621 bandeau has similar flaws (near the 21) to one I bought some years ago; the "bargain" turned out to be a copy upon close inspection.
I should have known better. :oops:
The one in the auction may have been made from the same electroforming mold.
 
Yes, that wappen thing is a ugly mess. Still curious about the leather shell with the stamp RBA 18. The stamp looks original but the original wappen holes to the helmet seem sooo high up on the body that it doesn't make sense.

and WOW! up to 600 euros! with 3 days to go!
 
The stamp does indeed look original, but wouldn't that be pretty easy to fake? I mean, contract a rubber stamp in the right size and font, hit the ink pad, then 'thin' the ink by stamping on paper until it's faded 'just right', then stamp. Pretty easy to replicate. Yikes! another thing to worry about! :-? :?

By the way, you guys have sharp eyes regarding the bandeau! Keep them coming, this is great and informative stuff.

:D Ron
 
About the prongs on the bottom of the plate. Since the mounting holes were moved up to fit the helmet, the bottom of the wappen would 'swing out' from the shell. So, the pins keep it in place. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some holes under that round dome support plate for a different spike base, either round or cross base with a shorter front 'arm'... (?).

Even with all of the photos, I feel like I'm looking at an Agatha Christy mystery... some piece of evidence is being withheld from us.

:D Ron
 
poniatowski said:
Even with all of the photos, I feel like I'm looking at an Agatha Christy mystery... some piece of evidence is being withheld from us.
Click to expand...

I feel the same way.

I think...

1. the stamp is a fake

or

2. the only thing Hessen about this helmet is the back visor and thats been sewn on to another helmet body.
 
Gentlemen, interesting thread !

- the stamps is not a fake, seems original to me, it's not so easy to fake markings

- the shell is originally made for a Prussian plate

- the quarter master had to provide helmets to both Prussian and Hessian units, in war time, a nightmare !

- so maybe some Prussian shells ended up with Hessian plates

I mention this option, since I've found or seen on ebay, several GR115 plates with hooks on this typical Prussian position and sometimes the solding looks really period.

This means that we could find an "original" 115th helmet made from an "original" Prussian, and this mess having taken place in 1915 or 1916.... we all know a number of re-issued, transitional, mixed 1895-1915 helmets, the quartermaster had a hard time trying to supply units while they were away in Russia, in Belgium, with a very high consumption of troops and equipment, and a shortage of spare part and supplies.....

In the case of this helmet on ebay, the only way to see if the shell bears the print of the plate for decades or if it has been placed recently, the varnish usually gives good indications, I consider from what I see on the pics that the probability is high that the helmet was refurbished some years ago, either or on a Prussian shell or on a Prussian Hessian reissued shell,

the plate is anyway original, even if it has been fixed.... the bandeau is more uncertain, the top of the spike is strange,

as another member said, the spike will have to be removed to check what's underneath, extra holes ? recent or period modification ?

have a nice week end,

Steve :thumb up:
 
the bandeau is more uncertain,
Click to expand...

I do not think it's uncertain. It's an ill made galvano, pictures let see it.

And I do not think, anybody could show any photos of an original LGR 115 with
such an attachment for the plate.

Spike look like a Dragoon's one, but it's also ezasy to see it's a galvano.

I know this helmet. A french collector made an exchange with a "twister", and sent me some photos.

You can see the whole story on the "Histoire et Militaria" forum, just follow the link I gave above.

And that I give again :

http://cgi.ebay.fr/Casque-a-pointe-115-eme-HESSOIS-1895-Prussien-Allemand-14-18-/120788219525?pt=FR_JG_Collections_Militaria_Uniformes&hash=item1c1f89f685" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
My thought here, even if it's original (i.e. converted by QM from a Prussian to Hessian), wouldn't the star on the plate still be stuck on there? So with the bandau, that would be at least two strikes against it.

:-k Ron
 
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