Hessian Leib Grenadier

T

Tomitchoe

New member
Hi Guys,

what do you think about this one ?
My thoughts are that first of all the bandeau should be fitted under the front leaf of the spike platform. not like it is here. what the rest is concerned it looks pretty fine. Ofcours i could be wrong...
Your feelings ?

http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190175237067&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009

greetz
Tom
 
Hi Tom,
I agree the 1621 silvered ribbon should be under the spike base and held in place with the stud so where is the hole? Also there is no evidence that it ever was under the base. It looks very pristine to me. The rear spine should also be rolled with no strengthening along the edges. The spike base has the rolled metal collar but it seems larger than most I have seen. The cockade should have two red rings. Problems, problems. Bill
 
Hi

The point is: a very seldom helmet BUT bad pictures (even if the seller is totally honest).

If you don't get better picture, the common sense would say: stay away!
 
Tom,
One other red flag..... almost all of his feedback is as a buyer and most of that comes from one seller. I don't like the smell of this one. Bill
 
I have a JR115 OR's helmet in my collection plus a Hessen reserve officer with brass fittings. The OR helme has the bandeau underneath the front arm of the spike base. The officer helme has a smooth brass rear spine (no ridges) with 2 domed brads holding it on to the rear of the shell like the typical Prussian dragoon helmet. This helme does not have these 2 charateristics so I would also treat this helmet with some suspicion. Brian
 
Hi,

Guys.

I am the seller!!!

Tomitchoes comments are sound and I agree.

The reason for my “unusual” feedback (recent) is all from one seller is that I have purchased 30 plus books from a single vendor. I don’t see anything sinister in this regardless of Kaiser Bills smells.

With regards the helmet it was purchased from Stauffer action house who I understand are reputable dealers. Thomas Appel who is also an expert” assure me the haube is bona fide and within the realms of variation he has seen over the years. However i respect your opinion as well.

The item is in Stauffer Auction 07 October 2006 item 1306, Tafel 9. The purchase price was 6100 Euros, so if it’s a fake I am a bit perturbed to say the least.

Maybe more money than sense?

The reason for selling is that I am short of cash having just gone through a difficult divorce.

You should compare and contrast the images on ebay with Stauffer Stauffer Auction 2006 item 1306, Tafel 9. and you will realize I am telling the truth.

I am not looking for apologies or sympathy just a fair shout.

I really do appreciate this web site though, its great.

Kindly check and report back.

Regards

NEWBE
 
having just gone through a difficult divorce
Click to expand...

I went through that once many years ago -- it was a financial disaster -- tough on the kids too. Things improved dramatically over time. You have my deep felt sympathies. Good for you in joining this debate!

I don't have one of these helmets -- I did handle one last year in at SOS. It sold for €17,000 but had a few additional bits as well as the parade plume and unique Hessian trichter. It did have the dragoon lugs on the back, the bandeau was under the front leg, the cruciform base was attached with STAR studs. I don't pretend to know all of the intricacies of the 115 officer hats but most secondary sources do not do a good job on Hessian stuff.

I would like to comment on the cockade. There seems to be many variations on this theme. I agree that two rings are correct and that is backed up by Ruhl, Das
Deutsche Heer, and Menzel. The diagrams differ somewhat and there seems to be a difference in placement of the red rings. Some seem to be close together like this:
HessianOfficercockade.gif

others seem to have the second ring right around the rosette. Manufacturing differences?
 
i'm not sure, but i believe this pickelhaube bears convex chinscales which is incorrect in my sense ?
dont they must be flat ? (and silvered)
 
You are correct Philippe but as you know, Larcade writes that officers in this regiment often went on wearing curved chinscales, against the regulation...
Bruno
 
Newbe,
My apologies but many unscrupulous sellers will inflate their feedback and then sell a big ticket item to someone who gets nothing. You must admit that of your one hundred feedbacks over 65 come from the same individual and all came as a buyer thus the red flag. Thank you for stepping forward and I apologize again.
I also have the catalog from the Stauffer auction and it is the same helmet. I would also agree that Thomas Appel is a respected dealer.
Is there any sign that the ribbon was ever mounted under the spike base? Are there two rings on the cockade? Thanks Bill
 
Bill many thanks for the apology; you’re a real gentleman.

I do agree entirely with you sentiments as well.

I do read a lot of books though that’s my profession. On an amusing note if you dig down further you will notice I bought two miniskirts. However that does not mean a I am transvestite - pickelhaube collector, but rather that my daughter borrowed the account as well and is just getting dad to pay.

She will be taking some pictures this weekend for me (as my efforts are pretty dismal).

I will post them, as requested.

In the meantime thanks for the comments. Positive or negative you should always keep them coming, that is the strength of this web site and you should never hesitate about voicing your opinion.
 
Items posted.
There are two red rings on the cockade, they were just hidden from view!
Ribbon looks like a later addition, any thoughts.

Reagrds
 
newbe said:
// On an amusing note if you dig down further you will notice I bought two miniskirts. However that does not mean a I am transvestite - pickelhaube collector, but rather that my daughter borrowed the account as well and is just getting dad to pay.//
Click to expand...

OK, now that was funny! :joker: I am at work and I let out a laugh so loud everyone looked at me like I had gone nuts. Welcome to the forum and good luck with your auction.
 
inner%20ring.jpg


There are two red rings on the cockade, they were just hidden from view!
Click to expand...

Yup!


On an amusing note if you dig down further you will notice I bought two miniskirts. However that does not mean a I am transvestite - pickelhaube collector, but rather that my daughter borrowed the account as well and is just getting dad to pay.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah!
 
The bids have been removed and the auction was ended early.

BTW, there was a court decision a while back concerning an auction that was ended early. They decided that an auction is a binding offer and that removing the offer from an internet platform has no effect on its legal validity - the item was granted to the last highest bidder.
 
Robert,

I decided to take it back to auction in Germany "from whence it came".
This a fairly expensive item and I was not getting much interest on e_bay.
The higher end stuff typically receives a lot of interrogation, and quite rightly so, given the market value and e_bayers are reluctant to put down lots of "folding stuff" for something which they suspect is a forgery.
I felt this was the best course of action so at least the auction house can independently verify its authenticity, i can get a better price and the purchaser has some guarantee as well. Their photos will also be better than the efforts I have attempted.

I don't believe this action is illegal as any purchaser as the right to withdraw anything from an auction before the hammer falls. I must say I have seen this a lot on E_Bay. The legality only comes into play when the auction closes as this is officially a contract.

Interested if anyone else has views on this. If you are genuinely interested drop me a line.

Regards

NEWBE
 
Newbe, please excuse this was not meant offensive in any way, rather informative because:

> any purchaser as the right to withdraw anything from an auction before the hammer falls

well no thats exactly the point. There is a court decision that an auction cannot be stopped just besause the bids are too low. This is an actual case (not just my opinion), allthough here in Germany and I dont know how this is handled internationally.

But again, I did not mean to affront you, just to toss in this info. I think this very nice helmet is better placed with a reputable auctioneer too, not on ebay.
 
Newbe: I would like to congratulate you on your integrity and the way that you have handled some of the comments including mine here on the forum. Your helmet has taken some "hits" here and you have handled these like a gentleman. I believe, that you have done the right thing by cancelling the ebay posting and putting the helmet up for sale on a regular auction. Regardless of the legality involved, at least in a traditional auction most buyers have a chance to handle the piece and make their own decision as to whether to bid or not. Fotos are fine but this is an expensive piece and the buyers deserve a chance to look closely at the helmet. You have chosen the safest way to sell the helmet in my opinion. I wish you luck on the sale of this piece. Regards, Brian
 
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