Hessian shako

[joerookery]

http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/Hessian%20Shako.htm

New article. Lots of pictures have been floating around here. This condenses some and highlight some of my questions. Please feel free to correct/comment/join in/do a rain dance. Poorly referenced area.

 

[Glennj]

Joe,

interesting stuff. The two original Hessen-Darmstadt Jäger battalions had been incorporated as the Füsilier (III.) Battalions of Infanterie-Regimenter 115 and 118 in January 1872 and consequently thereafter Hessen-Darmstadt had no Jäger Battalions. The description of the Jäger Shako in the history of IR 115 is as follows:

Shako with yellow fittings which had the form of the Prussian Jäger Shako without the rear peak; on the front, a Lion Shield, above that, a cockade and a pom pom (Huppe). The pom pom, 10 cm high of green wool was fitted at the lower end into a metal tulip shaped holder. The pom pom of the NCOs had a 2cm wide stripe in the centre, while that of the men was in the upper half in the company colour ( red, white, blue and yellow) See the illustration in the Uniformbogen at:

http://pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=36918&highlight=#36918

The Hessen-Darmstadt Train Component, the later Großh. Hess. Train-Bataillon Nr. 18, wore the Prussian pattern shako from 1877 until 24 October 1903.

I am rooting through my stuff for information on Hessian Landwehr and Landsturm.

Regards
Glenn

 

[Glennj]

Joe,

it seems fairly clear that the only Grand Ducal Hessian units wearing the Prussian pattern shako with the Hessian lion plate in peacetime were the Train Company/Battalion.

Additionally, the personnel of Landwehr Regiments (before the 1888 reorganisation) and later, the exercising Landwehr personnel from the Grand Ducal Hessian Landwehr Districts wore the shako with the Landwehr Cross with inscription "Gott, Ehre, Vaterland". Similarly the permanent staff of the Landwehr Districts wore the shako until replaced by the Pickehaube.

The 1905 supplement to the dress regulations which covered the Grand Ducal Mecklenburg and Grand Ducal Hessian contingents confirms that the Hessian Landwehr still wore the shako with the Landwehr Cross and inscription "Gott, Ehre, Vaterland"

That being the case, it seems likely that those individuals wearing a plated shako are using former Train-Bataillon shakos.

The dress regulations of 1905 already provided that on mobilzation, the newly formed I./Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 116 would wear the Litewka of Infanterie- (Leibgarde-) Regiment Nr. 115 with the red number 116 on white shoulder straps. Similarly on formation, I./Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 116, would wear the Waffenrock of Infanterie- (Leibgarde-) Regiment Nr. 115 with the red number 116 on white shoulder straps. In both instances above, the NCOs wore white linen litzen as opposed to the silver of the ILR 115 NCOs.

Regards
Glenn

 

[joerookery]

Glenn,

it seems fairly clear that the only Grand Ducal Hessian units wearing the Prussian pattern shako with the Hessian lion plate in peacetime were the Train Company/Battalion.

Agreed–now what happened after 1914 seems to be a good question.

Landwehr personnel from the Grand Ducal Hessian Landwehr Districts wore the shako with the Landwehr Cross

Is there anything in your regulations that describe this shako in any detail?

That being the case, it seems likely that those individuals wearing a plated shako are using former Train-Bataillon shakos.

I agree.

The dress regulations of 1905 already provided that on mobilzation, the newly formed I./Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 116 would wear the Litewka of Infanterie- (Leibgarde-) Regiment Nr. 115 with the red number 116 on white shoulder straps. Similarly on formation, I./Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 116, would wear the Waffenrock of Infanterie- (Leibgarde-) Regiment Nr. 115 with the red number 116 on white shoulder straps. In both instances above, the NCOs wore white linen litzen as opposed to the silver of the ILR 115 NCOs.

Could you post this please. I do not have that regulation. I can understand the Landwehr. But once we started swimming with reserve units…

 

[Glennj]

Joe,

firstly two scans from Louis Mila's "Uniformirungs-Liste" of 1881.

Regards
Glenn

 

[Glennj]

This from the Dress Regulations of 1905.

Regards
Glenn

 

[joerookery]

Ruhl 1902

 

[joerookery]

Well just as you were getting comfortable we rediscovered this picture. This comes from and is owned by Randy. I only have scans of it. This will set much of the thought pattern on its ear and will be included in the next go around of the article.

So far it looks like/smells like some sort of Landsturm unit. There are two locations similar to the sign. One is by Bitburg and the other one by Mulhouse. Both are behind the lines so perhaps it has something to do with train. But it only gets better.

Dated in September 1914 clearly identified as Landsturm Battalion_____?? Schlettstadt.

Now my understanding is that Schlettstadt is a location in Alsace. Far from Hesse using an old German spelling for city now known as Sélestat in French. I cannot read the name of the other city but there is nothing that comes close that I found in Army Corps XVIII Landsturm battalions.

So these guys are Landsturm unit -- From where??? With a Hessian Wappen. And Litzen.

 

[Glennj]

Joe,

I think it says Landsturm-Bataillon Friedberg......z.Z. Schlettstadt i.E.


z.Z. = zur Zeit: at present in Schlettstadt.

Friedberg was in 49. Infanterie-Brigade district as was the Leibgarde- Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 115. Looks like they received some hand me down Litewkas from LIR 115.


Regards
Glenn

 

[Glennj]

Joe,

I came across an interesting little article in the March/April 1987 edition of the Zeitschrift für Heereskunde titled Helme im Großherzogtum Hessen während des 1. Weltkriegs bis zur Einführung des Stahlhelms.

A pertinent comment in the article states that at the beginning of the war, XVIII. Armeekorps did not have its own Bekleidungsamt and consequently were supplied by XIV. Armeekorps from Baden. The upshot was, that many period photos show Grand Ducal Hessian troops equipped with Baden and Prussian plates. The article talks of the peacetime shako with Landwehr Cross being provided with a "provisional" chin strap with buckle and tongue.

It also talks of the introduction of field grey shakos without the Feldzeichen at the end of 1914.

Further to my post above, it seems that Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Friedberg were deployed as the part of the Straßburg Garrison in Alsace. Schlettstadt is just to the South of Straßburg.

Regards
Glenn

 

[joerookery]

I think it says Landsturm-Bataillon Friedberg......z.Z. Schlettstadt i.E.

I agree sort of embarrassing to have missed that! I could not get past the first letter which I assumed was P.

From the depot marks article. This originally came from Fuherer Durch Heere und Flotte.
I should check the Army Corps again.

The BKA was not standard in size or organization but varied by corps and nationality. In some cases civilians populated the "handwerk" section. Prussian Corps had about 75 NCO and OR types while Bavarians had 200. Wurttemberg's Corps and the two Saxon Corps had 28 NCOs but no ORs each.VIII Corps in Coblenz seems to have picked up much of the slack in the missing BKAs. They did parts of XVIII Corps, parts of XXI Corps and assorted other units like the NCO school.

A pertinent comment in the article states that at the beginning of the war, XVIII. Armeekorps did not have its own Bekleidungsamt and consequently were supplied by XIV. Armeekorps from Baden.

I have not seen anything from Baden.

This picture looks more like a model 1888 with the screw posts and the vent. But still the back visor does not sit well with me. Perhaps someone with more shako experience could express an opinion.

This picture has a cipher on the shoulder board not to number 116 yet it is RJR 116!?!?

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

//. Perhaps someone with more shako experience could express an opinion.//

With Landsturm? Not a chance. Look at your photos, guys in the same unit, some with collar Litzen, some without. Some with one pattern of Tschako, some with feathered Chiquita Banana hats. No rules apply to these guys. Joe, why do you keep looking for the round peg to fit into a square hole? With Landsturm, you will not find it. They wore what they could get.

 

[joerookery]

Joe, why do you keep looking for the round peg to fit into a square hole?

Because quitting is just not my stick! I think there is something here. Not sure what it is but rather than just say Landsturm is screwed up especially in 1914, I am trying to figure out some logic to this. Also, it seems to me that there are some reserve forces neither Landsturm or Landwehr that are wearing shako. I think that could change the way we think about things in 1914. I'm not just talking about Landsturm I am talking about Hessian troops wearing shako. Maybe I am just stylistic or perhaps idiotic however Hessen seems somewhat different and I cannot just put my finger on it. Pietsch seems to have stepped over it. That is why. ... to follow that star…

 

[joerookery]

Recently updated with this tremendous picture I acquired in a trade.
Ldst.-I.-Ers.-Btl. Dillenburg (XVIII. 41)


ps1354 by joerookery, on Flickr


1354b by joerookery, on Flickr