How do people react when you say you collect pickelhaubes?

Bungo

Bungo

Member
Curious to open up a "big question" discussion here.

Just this week I was explaining my pickelhaube collection to someone who I barely knew. I could hear the slight distaste in her voice, and I rather fear I came across as some psychologically damaged warmonger...

I admit it can seem a rather distasteful hobby. All the talk about holding as piece of history in your hands, respecting and remembering the men who fought and died on both sides, etc - this can all be lost on someone who can't get past the notion of collecting spiked helmets. It's not like we are collecting Third Reich militaria (which I always think is slightly insensitive and tasteless and rather gauche) but in uneducated minds anything to do with German soldiers = Nazi = evil. And leaving aside incorrect Nazi associations, I must admit part of the attraction of pickelhaubes to me is that there is an element of menace inherent to the design - they were intentionally designed to make the wearer look more intimidating. There is something in the aesthetic which speaks to our darker side, and even if that is only 1% of the reason I collect, I can admit it is there.

I recently moved to a new house, and when my wife and I were working out where stuff was to go in the new place the subject of my pickehaube collection came up. I suggested it could be showcased in the spare bedroom, but my wife was insistent that guests would be freaked out waking up in a room full of spiked helmets and wall-mounted display cases of WW1 medals...

How do you find people react when you tell them about your collection?

Bungo

P.S. I dream of telling someone about it, and them replying "Oh, we have one of those collecting dust in the attic, you can have it if you want"!
 
Our main room/rooms are decorated with Imperial German artifacts. I would say the immediate reaction of many uneducated ones is "Nazi stuff". However as I stay as far away from that as I can I have developed a reputation as a World War I guy. Interestingly, in the United States, there are those that don't even know that there was a war before World War II. My wife has done a masterful job in decorating those rooms and the furniture matches. We have a huge party annually where there are about 150 people and everyone seems to express a great deal of delight in partying in a museum. We don't have any field equipment just helmets – statues – pictures. It is just part of our existence. The rest of the house has no Imperial German stuff in it at all. Except for my messy office which has a lot of books – many of which I am considering donating to a university as I don't think we will do any other Imperial German books after Halen.
 
All my stuff and books are located in the living room and they usually attract a lot of attention from visitors. So, that's a great way to start a good conversation, although I am familiar with the Nazi association especially because of my stahlhemet. However, I don't mind explaining my hobby and the fact that it has nothing to do with the third reich, but this is a relatively well known distinction here in the Netherlands as well as the rest of Europe I guess. Nevertheless, I am always reluctant to talk about my hobby because of the seemingly bad connotation.

Regards,

Edwin
 
I'll weigh in as someone who lived in New York City and now lives in Michigan. In New York there were people who generally found the helmets (I have LOTS of helmets) interesting, but usually the reaction to anything with a swaskita was "is that legal to own."

Once I moved to Michigan I find that people find history - military history - much more interesting. I have a den with a lot of African, Indian and Asian swords, and generally the reaction is good. It really is my uber liberal in-laws that see ANY problem - but they're also super cheap and probably see it as a huge waste of money!

I did have one friend in New York who didn't like anything that was related to the Nazis and even found Imperial Germany to be distasteful. He also questioned why I spent so much money on this stuff and said, "you should travel and you could see helmets at museums around the world. You could have photos of thousands of helmets instead." I basically said, "I've been to Europe enough and between going again and buying helmets... I'll take the helmets."
 
My collection is in a spare room in my house simply because I keep it climate controlled in the winter (humidifier). I am certainly not ashamed of my collection and as I have mentioned previously, I have used it countless times in the class room. I never had any complaints from parents and I encouraged kids to ask their parents about relatives who had fought in the wars, even to just ask about their family History, where they came from. I have had students bring in medals and artifacts so I could explain and identify them. I had one kid bring in the log book of a great uncle who had won the DFC piloting a Halifax (RCAF). I always encouraged my students to make sure that medals and any memorabilia were kept safe. So, no I never will apologize for my collection, anyone with any smarts can recognize its value. I have used Ebay in the classroom, getting on the internet showing them things that were being sold and explaining how they fit into the bigger picture. BTW every teacher in my county has a net book. I had an LCD projector in every class room so I could hook up to the net and spread the word. I have taken them to the Collectors Guild site and shown them the SS stuff for sale. I never had a problem because I was careful to explain the connection with what we were studying, namely, the relevance...... the fact that the Nazis loved militaria regalia. I tied it into the fact that uniforms bring humans together, team spirit and my comparison was when the football team guys wore their colours to class the day before their game.
Life is nothing without passions...boring, going to work everyday and playing it safe....screw that!
 
b.loree said:
.... I have taken them to the Collectors Guild site and shown them the SS stuff for sale. I never had a problem because I was careful to explain the connection with what we were studying, namely, the relevance......!
Click to expand...

SS stuff and other nazi items that clearly show the swastika are not allowed on auction sites here in the Netherlands unlike allied material from WW2. I understand that this is still a sensitive topic, but there is a huge amount of other offensive stuff available on these sites and, moreover, WW2 happened 70 years ago so its certainly time to move on.

Regards,

Edwin
 
:army: Nobody comes in to my house, unless they don’t mind getting shot, and fed to the piranhas, best body disposal you’ll ever find …

Just kidding :bootyshake:
 
Spiker said:
:army: Nobody comes in to my house, unless they don’t mind getting shot, and fed to the piranhas, best body disposal you’ll ever find …

Just kidding :bootyshake:
Click to expand...

Actually, the best body disposal method is a pig farm. Just ask the Hell's Angels.
Steve
 
ottodog8 said:
Actually, the best body disposal method is a pig farm. Just ask the Hell's Angels.
Steve
Click to expand...

Yes ,but they are so noisy , acid also does the trick ,just ask András Pándy ,oh wait ,he dead… :pale:
 
Most of our collection is in the 'hobby room', which unfortunately has also become a studio for my art work, so it's in a bit of dis-array right now (look in the Pickelhaube Discussion thread for photos). However, I have some helmets in the living room on shelves that are protected by clear acrylic sheet. I don't show off my collection often and then only to friends who I know have an interest. The ones in the living room, well, if somebody doesn't like them, I really don't care... it is an acquired (or even genetic) taste. As a matter of fact, I like it when guests can't see the value in the helmets, then I know if THEY have one, I can get a bargain! I also have steels, tanker helmets, medals and a few uniforms, along with all of my own military gear from my service, so the collection is quite bulky.
I also find that most of my friends understand that these are WWI rather than WWII and are genuinely interested in them. I do have some WWII helmets, Third Reich included, but to me it's all history and it IS interesting to think about the people who wore them, cared for them and even died in them.
Since I started collecting military helmets and such when I was six years old, I think this is more than just 'something I do', it's 'something I am'... along with my time in the military and doing historic re-enactment of tank crews for museums and private individuals.

After my divorce decades ago, I was dating again and I had a woman over who looked at the collection as it was then and asked, "What's all of this garbage?" I smiled at her, thanked her for a nice evening and politely kicked her out. However, my current wife exclaimed, "Wow! What beautiful helmets!" Then a few weeks later, we went tank driving at Fort Knox for the museum. Since then she's re-enacted tank crew with me and has been my best friend, so the helmets really helped me to figure her out in that case.

To answer the other question, if I tell somebody I collect 'spiked helmets' (since most don't know what Pickelhaube are) and they seem disinterested, it doesn't bother me at all. I couldn't care less about some of their collections and hobbies, so I guess it's all equal. I'm GLAD everybody doesn't collect Pick's... we all have enough competition as it is!


:D Ron
 
Hmmm....that was a unique "pick up line" Ron...... come drive tanks with me! It takes a special woman to not run away from that one! That is definitely a keeper, congrats.
 
b.loree said:
Hmmm....that was a unique "pick up line" Ron...... come drive tanks with me! It takes a special woman to not run away from that one! That is definitely a keeper, congrats.
Click to expand...

You'd be surprised how many women want to drive tanks! :greentank: :greentank: :greentank: :greentank:

:D Ron
 
FlakPanzer Gepard !

Not a "Tank" but.... we had two belt fed 35mm Oerlikon guns !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5iL1EkSkRs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Those were the days: young and wild !

Francis

"Feuer Frei !"
 
Khukri said:
FlakPanzer Gepard !

Not a "Tank" but.... we had two belt fed 35mm Oerlikon guns !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5iL1EkSkRs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Those were the days: young and wild !

Francis

"Feuer Frei !"
Click to expand...

Still a 'tread head'! I was on M-109A/0; A1; A6 Self Propelled Howitzers, M60 (A/0), M1IP Abrams, M113, M548, M557 as crew member and commander / chief. I've done many more for museums and friends ranging from M3 / M5 Stuarts, Sherman family, T-34/85, half tracks, M60A2/A3 and other armor. The most unique thing I've ridden in is a PzKpfw IV L70 'Jagdpanzer'... It was all indeed fun.

For us it was, "On the WAY!", which was more of a very quick 'onthwy' for experienced gunners... after the command to fire. :) Tony was also a tanker. Any more tread heads?

:D Ron
 
Hello,

My opinion based on my memories about it.

in occupied Europe (excluding UK , Switzerland, etc. ) , the former (eg , like my grandparents ) who suffers the horrors of war , and the German atrocity (the 14-18 and 40-45 ) it is difficult to formally show an interest in the German parts of all time. For the ancients, for some , germany has been the source of two very serious war , having first destroyed almost an entire country ( Belgium ) , who tortured his people , killed his son , generations of families were decimated.

Well understood , there those who enjoyed the German presence in our country. There are still nostalgic for this period.

For the ancients, who lived through that period , it is not conceivable that we are interested in this subject, the German militaria . If my grandfather were alive today , I would have received a famous slaps on my face. It would have been innaceptable . But this attitude of denial (which can of course be understood ) is not scientifically acceptable. Today , it is difficult to talk about collaboration Léon Degrelle and Walloon SS . Whether for German 14-18 , called " The Boche " than 40-45 of the same name , all comers were considered as devils from the depths of hell...

Today , it is inconceivable to walk in Belgium , Germany or France even less with a flag of the Third Reich on the road. If you dare pointed nose with such an object in the street, the federal police will lead to prison and you will speak with a judge rather quickly.

For many Europeans , the stigma of German atrocities is not yet closed.

It is not obvious to people ( I 'm not talking about veterans, only civilian ) have not directly experienced these atrocities germany Kaiser and Führer to understand what feelings ; but to give a picture of what feelings , imagine that USA , people began to collect objects from talibants have made ​​trade exchanges militaria etc etc, it is unimaginable (but, I think that) ! In Europe , in many countries , even today , collect German militaria is to be Nazi mind. Sad mentality right?

I was 12 , I bought with my little money, a Tamiya's Tiger II tank . My dad died when I was 3 years , and then I had a stepfather. It told me : "you're a Nazi " . Sad mentality .....


It's my experience, not my mentality.


best regards
 
Tabora, I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like to have been invaded by the Germans twice in a generation.

Your comments make me appreciate the luxury I have, how lucky I am that I don't feel that sense of horror that your grandparents would have felt at some of these items.

I always thought Imperial German militaria is not offensive, that it only gets a bad reputation by ill-educated association with WW2 German militaria. But reading your post makes me realise that to some people Imperial Germany was also an aggressor, an invader, and committed atrocities.

Food for thought, definitely.
 
I think that in the US these are looked at quite differently. People outside the hobby react in various ways:

1) The helmets are interesting or even beautiful. (A good reaction)
2) Indifference (most common)
3) Why do you collect that trash? (my grandparents of Danish and Norwegian descent)
4) Isn't that Nazi? (people for whom history is a confusing and convoluted thing... )
5) Outright hatred and distaste for anything martial. (strange thing is, I understand how they feel, not being fond of war myself but really having a passion for its history and equipment... odd isn't it?)

These were things veterans brought home as souvenirs, gifts and trophies or were awarded as prizes by the government to private citizens. The US was also never occupied and seldom attacked (in WWII), came into the First World War late and "won" it for the allies. As such, the US never bled as much as other countries in either World War and was virtually untouched. It's a legacy the US is still struggling with in many, many ways.

:D Ron
 
Belgium has been the victim of Nazi et prussian atrocities .
Stigma is unalterable in the Belgian memories.

A law exists on this subject , 23 MARS 1995 condemning the glorification of the Third Reich and the Holocaust denial acts of this regime.

http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/cgi_loi/change_lg.pl?language=fr&la=F&table_name=loi&cn=1995032331" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Open wounds in the heart of descendant families destroyed have not helped to allow collectors, even in good faith to show the great days without being subject to the wrath of the people.

Rest assured , I was born in 1976 ... or 31 after the end of World War II , I have just known veteran's of 1914-1918 and 1940-1945 . And between them, there was this "war" , those who had been held for four years before the invader behind the Yser in 14-18 and those who had not held that ... 18 days in May 1940 (19 for men of strong Liège Tancrémont ) .

If one day you visit Belgium, please call me! I will be happy to meet you (and this is valid for all members of this forum, You are welcome in Belgium !)


regards

Mick
 
Mick, I visited Belgium in 2005 to visit the battlefields around Ypres. Saw the Menin Gate, the massive war cemetaries, it is truly a haunting thing to see the thousand and thousands of graves.
 
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