ID Help needed with another mystery soldier

[Nick]

In the package of materials that I recently received from my family here and here, came this photo with no clear identification for the untrained eye. Presumably its another relative, perhaps the father of Reinhold, but I'm trying to build the case to prove that.

Any thoughts on regiment, rank, and most importantly: when the photo may have been taken would be greatly appreciated.

I know that the 23rd (2nd Upper Silesian) Infantry regiment was garrisoned in Neisse (where the photo appears to have been taken), but that looks an awful lot like a 28 rather than a 23 on the shoulder strap. That said, Kaiser's Bunker tells me that the 23rd's shoulder strap was indeed yellow with a red 23, while the 28th used blue with a red 28. Maybe the person who did the coloring mistook the 3 for an 8 on the photo and made the error.

As I look at the photo more, I see the button on the collar that I think signifies a Gefreiter. Is this correct? I have no idea what, if any, significance is associated with the gold braid/lanyard (what is that thing called?) hanging from the 2nd button. Does the white belt specify his battalion, like the black belt did the Fusilier (3rd) battalion in my other photo?

I may have answered some of my questions myself, but it would be good to get confirmation from someone with more than my 3 weeks' exposure, or a gentle course correction in the right direction. Also dating the photo will help put this soldier in the correct family generation. Does anyone know when the photographer J. Assman was active in Neisse?

Thanks again,
Nick
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[Glennj]

Nick,

some observations on your coloured photograph. I think we can safely say that even if the number on the shoulder strap is a bit "iffy", it is meant to depict the number 23. Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 23 is the only infantry regiment that was stationed in Neisse and Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 28 (notwithstanding the colour of the straps) was at the other end of the country in the Rhineland. We know with the lack of a Reichskokarde that this image predates 1897 and always assuming the illustrator got it right in respect to the colour of his waist belt, then the photograph predates 1887 when all the line infantry (with the exception of the 1st and 2nd battalions of the Grenadier regiments) received black waist belts.

That being the case I would date your photo around the mid eighties. The collar button does denote the rank of Gefreiter and I believe he is just wearring some form of fob on the front of the tunic.

Regards
Glenn

 

[Nick]

Thank you Glenn, once again I appreciate the assistance. Given that this photo is most likely from the mid-1880s, I wonder if instead of father it would be an older brother of Reinhold Nestmann? They do look somewhat similar, but very different from the other soldier whose picture I posted. We know very little about Reinhold's family, no info. on names of parents or siblings. Only the information contained in the two documents I posted in his thread.

Could someone educate me on what determined the regiment a person served his obligatory time with (setting aside that tall soldiers from across Germany were recruited to the Guards regiments)? I know it was regional, was it based on residence when coming of age or birthplace? Would it be unusual for brothers to serve in different regiments or normal?

V/R
Nick

 

[desny]

I had similar questions concerning the military duty of ancestors around 1900 in Germany and found some answers here and there on the net:
Compulsory military duty was introduced in Prussia by the law of 3rd August 1814 (Gesetz über die Verpflichtung zum Kriegsdienst) during the napoleonic wars. All male citizens 20 years old had to accomplish a 3 year military duty without exemptions or replacement. All men from age 15 to 60 years who did not qualify for active service would be affected to a reserve army (Landwehr).

In the North German Confederation (Norddeutscher Bund) created by Bismark (1867 - 1870), the troups of the 17 states of that confederation were placed under the command of the King of Prussia. The law on 9th November 1867 (Gesetz betreffend die Verpflichtung zum Kriegsdienst) stipulates that every man in the confederation aged 20 years was obligated to a compulsory military duty of 7 years, 3 years of uninterrupted active service and 4 years in the Reserve.

Under the Second German Empire (1871 - 1918) the armies of the different german states were placed under prussian command. In general, a conscript was usually enrolled in a unit of his nationality: a Saxon for instance was enrolled in a saxon unit, although born in a prussian province. This rule did not apply for the Garde:
"Zur Rekrutierung - was für die anderen Einheiten galt, nämlich ortsnahe Rekrutierung im Bereich des jeweiligen Armeekorps, traf auf die Garde nicht zu. Hier wurden alle preußischen Provinzen und Elsaß-Lothringen mit einbezogen."
For instance, the recruting "Kanton" for Königin Elisabeth Garde-Grenadier-Regiment Nr. 3 garrisoned in Charlottenburg was not restricted to that area:
"Mit Erlass des preußschen Kriegsministeriums wird das Staatsgebiet in acht Ergänzungsbezirke (per Armeekorps) eingeteilt, aus allen Ergänzungsbezirken wurden vorab 1/8 der Rekruten an das Garde-und Grenadierkorps abgegeben."

I am convinced that specialists on this forum are able to add ordinance date, decree number, paragraph references to my approximate explanations.

Hope this gets you started. Kind regards

Roland

 

[joerookery]

http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/MilitaryService_08.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Nick]

Thank you Roland and Joe.

Joe, the first half of your article made for interesting lunch-time reading today and I shall read the 2nd half this evening (as well as some of the other articles you have posted on your site). I have also found "The Armed Strength of the German Empire (Parts I and II)", prepared for the Intelligence Division of the (UK) War Office in 1888 by Capt. J.M. Grierson on Google Books. It looks like it might have some good information and is free for me to peruse on my iPad.

Nick