Is It A Wurtt ?

[pickelhauben]

Hey Guys ,

I got a brass Wurt EM about 25 years ago .
It has stampings that may be a Prussian helmet not Wurttemburg.

J. R. 172 1913

AND

BAXV 1913

It is in pristine condition and has original cocardes and c/s.

Pruss or Wurtt ?

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

Have you looked at the loops or bolts on the back of the Wappen to see if they have been moved to accommodate the holes on the helmet? A Württemberg Wappen will typically not fit on a Prussian Pickelhaube. It's always possible of course that this was done for a reissue, but usually it's been done by a collector or a dealer.

 

[pickelhauben]

They fit perfect in the brass grommets and the studs ( threaded studs ) have not been moved.

 

[SkipperJohn]

Maybe the guy that stamped it had dyslexia and it was supposed to be JR 127.

John

 

[joerookery]

This is an interesting crease. All of the simple evidence points towards Prussia. but it is not as clean as we might like it to be. There is no problem with the BAXV mark as that is what we are talking about. JR177.A Württemberg Wappen? Most collectors and historians will skip over the fact that the lesser kingdoms contributed a regiment to the occupation of Alsace-Lorraine. In the case of Württemberg that was JR 126. In a case like the maker Julius Jansen he supplied many of the helmets for both XIV and XV corps. So you can have a Prussian eagle and Baden Griffin on an issue helmet made by Jansen that have the same distance between mounting hardware. The pictures below are of two M15s from Jansen and the two wappen though different have grommets the same distance apart.

While most BKA were established by 1888, including XV, the expansion of the Army in 1912/13 found a nkumber of BKAs doing double duty. In the explosion of helmet requirements in August 1914 it is very possible that if the BKA or the maker had a surplus of Württemberg Wappen stored for use in jR126, they could reasonably be expected to issue those surplus wappen. both JR 126 and JR 172 were serviced by BKA XV. Not only that but they were both of the 39th infantry division.

So there may be a logical thread but it is a thread. Experienced collectors long ago told me to buy only those items which were standard and did not need explanation. This one does not fit in that box but it was free!