Is the Prussian wappen scepter always cut out?

[planzero]

I didn't know where else to post this general question. I want to know if ALL Prussian wappen have the eagle scepter details cut out, regardless of helmet type. It's something I've always been fascinated with considering how delicate the shaft of the miniature scepter is to not only manufacture but also to remain intact after all this time. Every image I can find, no matter how old the model, has the scepter eagle cut out perfectly.
The reason I ask is because I have a kurassier wappen I always assumed was a nice reproduction because the scepter does not have the details cut out. However I just saw that age of kings is selling a silver kurassier wappen with the exact same anomaly as mine. Here it is next to a proper cut out. Is that a replica?

 

[JohnS3rd]

You bring up a good question. I did a quick check of my Prussian wappen and found that all the pre-war wappen have very good detail cut out of the septers's eagle/adler. However, my M15 and Erzats Pickelhauben three have cut out scepter's eagle/adler are well defined and two have similar excess flash around the eagle/adler on the septer. This might be attributed to a few manufacturers getting by on less stringent attention to detail . This may be due to both the war and the urgent need for the M15 style wappen were need to refit helmets, while still producing the M15 to a greatly expanded wartime army in the field.
This is all a swag or scientific wild ass guess on my part, as I am by no means a expert in the area of collecting the diverse and interesting nitch of Pickelhaube Collecting.
Best regards,
John

 

[coert65]

You bring up a good question. I did a quick check of my Prussian wappen and found that all the pre-war wappen have very good detail cut out of the septers's eagle/adler. However, my M15 and Erzats Pickelhauben three have cut out scepter's eagle/adler are well defined and two have similar excess flash around the eagle/adler on the septer. This might be attributed to a few manufacturers getting by on less stringent attention to detail . This may be due to both the war and the urgent need for the M15 style wappen were need to refit helmets, while still producing the M15 to a greatly expanded wartime army in the field.
This is all a swag or scientific wild ass guess on my part, as I am by no means a expert in the area of collecting the diverse and interesting nitch of Pickelhaube Collecting.
Best regards,
John

It could also have something to adheared to wear of the dies of the wappen, which they were made with. Worn out, these could be a problem with the accuracy/details of the wappen.

Regards, Coert.

 

[planzero]

I agree, the pre war quality is much better on every example I've seen, but even the wartime examples still make sure it was cut out, as seen on the picture of my M1915 kürassier helmet. I would assume this area needed to be finished by hand and therefore not a priority during wartime.

 

[Rkinkade]

As Coert suggests above, it may well be worn die tooling used to stamp out the wappen. German silver is a harder material than brass, so if tooling originally designed for brass was used, detail would be lost to the stamping.

I believe in this particular case, wappen for the 6th cuirassier may lack the cutout detail based on my 2 photos. Both helmets were purchased from direct family of the original owners. Note the brad retainers as opposed to studs or loops.

Ron

 

[JohnS3rd]

As Coert suggests above, it may well be worn die tooling used to stamp out the wappen. German silver is a harder material than brass, so if tooling originally designed for brass was used, detail would be lost to the stamping.

I believe in this particular case, wappen for the 6th cuirassier may lack the cutout detail based on my 2 photos. Both helmets were purchased from direct family of the original owners. Note the brad retainers as opposed to studs or loops.

Ron

Is it possible to see the inside of cuirassier helmets to see the inside attachment of the wappen? Thanks for sharing you in advance.
Best regards
John

 

[planzero]

Thanks Ron! I now rescind my previous statement. The one from AoK also has the holes for the fasteners. Great to know for future reference.
I'm glad I didn't try to fix mine! I bought it from a fellow member, and I just assumed it was probably a very well done copy because of the condition and price. Although mine has threaded studs. I just couldn't find any examples when I looked, but I admit I only thought to look for a few days.
Thanks, Geoff