Jäger zu Pferd Metallhelm Comparison

Lost Skeleton

Well-known member
Last week, I attended the Mohawk Arms auction in Bouckville, New York and returned with something I needed about as much as a hole in the head. However, it's difficult passing up something as nice as this: a Schulz & Holdefleiss JzP M15, virtually unchanged from the day it was made.

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Once home, I was able to compare the S & H with my somewhat battle scarred Herman Weissenburger & Cie. JzP. Both helmets have the same shell size (57), making this a true "apples to apples" juxtaposition.

To begin, the following photograph illustrates the frontal geometry of the respective shells. The S & H, at left, features a cylindrical form, whereas the W & C is more spherical. Also note the wider flare of the more projecting W & C visor.

SHJ1.jpg


An overhead view reveals the S & H, again left, to be nearly circular on top, while the W & C resembles an ellipse.

SHJ2.jpg


In profile: The "bayonet" mount spikes are marginally taller than those found on M15 Pickelhauben. Also note the above the ear contour of the shells. The S & H is at top.

SHJ3.jpg


In addition to the noticeably different proportions, the helmets display other unique characteristics.

Schulz & Holdefleiss eagle detail:
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Herman Weissenburger & Cie.
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Note the stylistic differences in the clutched swords:

S & H
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W & C
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Finally, the cloverleaf cruciform: Note the positioning and appearance of the domed fasteners. The S & H fasteners have been machined, whereas the W & C are die struck.

S & H
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W & C
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Jäger zu Pferd Metallhelme were also manufactured by C. E. Juncker, Helbing u. Sackewitz, and, perhaps, additional Firmen. This is but a first step, and I invite your participation in sharing and comparing other JzP types.

Chas.
 
That was very enjoyable Chas. I am on the road until 10 Dec and will comapre mine with your photos when I return to see if have anything worth contributing. I especially liked the overhead view, and the great photography!
 
Chas: Very nice photographic comparison. I have a brass/tombak trimmed 8th JzP manufactured by C.E. Juncker, dated 1915, size 55.5. This helmet has the same body configuration and front plate detals as your Herman Weissenburger M15.

Reservist1
 
Hi R1:

That checks with my steel/silver trimmed Juncker 7th Jzp. Have you encountered evidence suggesting helmets were manufactured by Weissenburger for Juncker (or vice versa)?

I also have a Schulz and Holdefleiss Kürassier M15 (size 61), and there is little doubt in my mind S & H manufactured just one shell type to which either JzP or Kürassier visors and neck guards were fitted.

Chas.
 
Lost Skeleton said:
That checks with my steel/silver trimmed Juncker 7th Jzp. Have you encountered evidence suggesting helmets were manufactured by Weissenburger for Juncker (or vice versa)?

Chas: I have no definitive evidence but I believe the helmet bodies came from the same source. It could be as you suggest that Juncker provided parts to Weissenburger (or vice versa). On the other hand it is possible that both companies acquired helmet body parts from a firm specializing in metal stamping.

Reservist1
 
Chas.

Really am enjoying the comparison, and as the others say, the photography is very good. This is the stuff that makes this site great. Thank You!

Didn't Schulz & Holdefleiss make ersatz scabbards for bayonets also?

Geo
 
Great topic and fotos Chas! My M15 JzP is dated 1915 and made by Otto Nachtigall Berlin. The spike brads on this helme are also machined. This helmet was never blued...just plain steel. Brian
 
Hi George:

Thank you for the kind words. The photography was something of an endeavor, but at least helmets are stationary. Children and animals would be a real chore.

I'm afraid I don't have an answer regarding the bayonet scabbards. Perhaps Chip can enlighten us.

Hi Brian:

Ditto thanks. It has been a while since I've looked at your JzP. How does the shape compare with the two specimens above? It may not be readily apparent from the pictures, but the blueing on the Weissenburger is a few shades darker than the S & H.

Please jump in with some pictures when time permits.

Chas.
 
Congratulations Chas. The S&H helmet is especially attractive, notably when seen from the side.
Bruno
 
Very good Photos and explanation. I wonder if kaiser, general staff and rich officers pickelhaubes' eagles was hand-made.
 
that is a great comparison .My jZP is dated 1916 .i now have to look at the shells and check out to see if everything is kosher and if anything differ's . Nice new helmet .
Mark :)
 
Hi Chas

Nice discovery !!!

I am trying to put together all infos about JzP helmts. It is a not financial action ! Just a trial to inform collectors about these helmets.

Please, have a look at: http://lagrandeguerre.cultureforum.net/coiffes-uniformes-equipements-individuels-et-collectifs-f38/les-casques-de-jager-zu-pferde-reconnaitre-les-bons-t9722.htm

or http://headgears.free.fr/frm/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=253&p=1572#p1572

In this way, I am asking for the autorisation to use your pictures of these two M15 JzP helmets? Please mp if yes or ...not !



Thank you in advance
 
Great article - My M.1915 JzP is manufactured by "DAMASCHKE" and dated 1916. Another observation: I've noticed on both JzP helmets in my collection (the other is a 1915 CE Junker dated to 8th Reg JzP - Tomback trim) that the base of the spike at it's widest point has a "sharp" edge detail as opposed to a 3mm vertical step as usually found on issued infantry helmets.

It would be interesting to know all the names of manufacturers and any other variants that exist. Also, I've noticed that there are also variants with the side-posts and chin-strap locating plate. Some have a "rounded" tip to the retaining stud, others have a "pointed" tip. (this also applies to the M.1915 cavalry helmets - except for the removable spike [and base] that are distinctly different in design).

Hope this is of Interest.

Martin.
 
Hi Tony

Nice !

but, but ...one marking of the 1st to 4th Reg ...?

and another question: who have seen the 3 letter marking on the front of the shell of a model 1915?
 
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