Jocks' ventilated rear spine problem
- Thread starter Jock
- Start date
Wyliecoyote
New member
Wow, what happened to the previous reply and you initial question? Strange.
OK, go back to forum index, click on "General Site Information" - "Site for download photos." I have used both of these sites numerous times with sucess. I generally use Image shack, but photo bucket is just as good I think.
Geo
OK, go back to forum index, click on "General Site Information" - "Site for download photos." I have used both of these sites numerous times with sucess. I generally use Image shack, but photo bucket is just as good I think.
Geo
Hey Jock
It sounds to me like you are working from a steam powered computer like my old machine. Somehow I picked up a worm that would not let me load everything on the site, and it would limit my ablity to handle photos. Or it could be that I mucked up something in properties. My solution wass to buy another machine, and I keep the old one to down losd the e-mails that this one will not recieve. These machines can be frustrating, but they are still a great tool.
Gus
It sounds to me like you are working from a steam powered computer like my old machine. Somehow I picked up a worm that would not let me load everything on the site, and it would limit my ablity to handle photos. Or it could be that I mucked up something in properties. My solution wass to buy another machine, and I keep the old one to down losd the e-mails that this one will not recieve. These machines can be frustrating, but they are still a great tool.
Gus
joerookery
Well-known member
Now THAT is a plan!! Liquid bread!
I sent you a PM with my addy.
VR/Joe
joerookery
Well-known member
I moved this post. Jock's pictures. The helmet also has a mixture of private purchase/ issue/ questionable parts. We need to get you to the right pages of Tony's reference.
Hello again,
Thank you Joe for putting up the photos, your help in this matter is much appreciated.
Thank you Gus for you comments. Can you help me with some of the site jargon....i.e. what is this " SOS " business all about ? Are there a lot of ships sinking or what ??
Back to reality. Joe states that there are a number of issues to sort out with my helmet. I think there is one major issue which is a bit of a conundrum to me. The helmet is stamped IR 19 and is clearly a post 1895 (as dated by the vented rear body) but appears also to be a private EM purchase. The Kaisers site states that EM hemets are not ventilated at the rear. Is this an indisputable fact ? The spike is also, it would appear, an Officers spike as it has a Dart & Egg perlring. It also has 2 Vent holes and a detachable top for mounting an Haarbusch or similar. Could this be a purchasers choice ? The front peak is a rounded one with 6mm brass banding, indicating to me that it is indeed an EM helmet. The liner is an 8 tongued item.
Can I have some opinions please.
Jock
Thank you Joe for putting up the photos, your help in this matter is much appreciated.
Thank you Gus for you comments. Can you help me with some of the site jargon....i.e. what is this " SOS " business all about ? Are there a lot of ships sinking or what ??
Back to reality. Joe states that there are a number of issues to sort out with my helmet. I think there is one major issue which is a bit of a conundrum to me. The helmet is stamped IR 19 and is clearly a post 1895 (as dated by the vented rear body) but appears also to be a private EM purchase. The Kaisers site states that EM hemets are not ventilated at the rear. Is this an indisputable fact ? The spike is also, it would appear, an Officers spike as it has a Dart & Egg perlring. It also has 2 Vent holes and a detachable top for mounting an Haarbusch or similar. Could this be a purchasers choice ? The front peak is a rounded one with 6mm brass banding, indicating to me that it is indeed an EM helmet. The liner is an 8 tongued item.
Can I have some opinions please.
Jock
Jock, the liner, visor trim, rear spine, and helmet shell are all issued. Private ppurchase helmets would absolutely not have issue marks. I would have to say that an officer pattern private purchase spike and base has been added to this helmet. This is easy to fix. Looks like a nice example.
joerookery
Well-known member
Jock,
SOS is "Show of Shows" an annual huge militaria show in February in Louisville KY. USA. Many of us go, meet and drink too much.
I am of no help in fixing parts Tony can guide much better than I. I think your spike base is suspect. It does not match the issued helmet and seems somewhat contrived. This needs a normal issued spike base and spike. Your spike looks sweet but I would want to look at the threads. I would also like to see pictures of the rosettes. The wappen is suspect too. A relatively rare old style Grenadier wappen. It was used by some arty units later. The marking that you seein says exactly what? (too dark in the pictures. We would also like to see the method of attachment for the wappen.
Didn't think there was that much to this? Why do you think Tony's reference is 7 million pages long
Thank you all very much,
I got into this after visiting a very eminent old German bankers' house for Supper with my wife, in about 1982. He had an amazing collection of helmets in a floor to ceiling glass cabinet the whole width of his dinning room, which I may add was large, very large. On the other main wall was his wifes' collection of meisen dinner plates which included 3 from the Gau Moscow Set made for the celebration dinner for old Adolf when they took the capital. If that is not forward planning I don't know what is.
I then went looking for some pickelhaubes of my own and that is how I came to own these 2 that I have now. They were great conversation pieces at my own supper parties.
I now regret ever going to the first party I should have stuck to collecting eggs or something !!!
I got into this after visiting a very eminent old German bankers' house for Supper with my wife, in about 1982. He had an amazing collection of helmets in a floor to ceiling glass cabinet the whole width of his dinning room, which I may add was large, very large. On the other main wall was his wifes' collection of meisen dinner plates which included 3 from the Gau Moscow Set made for the celebration dinner for old Adolf when they took the capital. If that is not forward planning I don't know what is.
I then went looking for some pickelhaubes of my own and that is how I came to own these 2 that I have now. They were great conversation pieces at my own supper parties.
I now regret ever going to the first party I should have stuck to collecting eggs or something !!!
Hello again to all,
Firstly I have to thank you guys again for your prompt and succinct advice. It really is an education.
For Tony. What do I need to do to correct the faults on Vented Helm or (VM ) from now on ? How on earth does one find the bits and pieces? Is it a worthwhile task?
For Joe. Thanks for posting the second set of photos. I really do owe you a beer. One of you observations was that the spike base was "Contrived". Being a Hauben dummy it looks OK to me. What am I missing ? Your advice and education please.
As an aside, the management of this site could make a fortune educating my Bank in customer relations and service. You are good, very good.
Regards
Jock
Firstly I have to thank you guys again for your prompt and succinct advice. It really is an education.
For Tony. What do I need to do to correct the faults on Vented Helm or (VM ) from now on ? How on earth does one find the bits and pieces? Is it a worthwhile task?
For Joe. Thanks for posting the second set of photos. I really do owe you a beer. One of you observations was that the spike base was "Contrived". Being a Hauben dummy it looks OK to me. What am I missing ? Your advice and education please.
As an aside, the management of this site could make a fortune educating my Bank in customer relations and service. You are good, very good.
Regards
Jock
joerookery
Well-known member
Jock what made me question is the lack of crispness to the pearl ring and the raised area around the studs. Compare these bases to yours. See the differences?
Yours.....
Other...
Some repro ring "are not exactly egg and dart but poor attempts. Your picture is not the easiest to see.
Now look at the top of these plates.....
Now do you see the raised lip around the studs and edge? Remember as Tony said this whole thing should be replaced with an issued base so the originality of the original base is semi-moot.
Yours.....
Other...
Some repro ring "are not exactly egg and dart but poor attempts. Your picture is not the easiest to see.
Now look at the top of these plates.....
Now do you see the raised lip around the studs and edge? Remember as Tony said this whole thing should be replaced with an issued base so the originality of the original base is semi-moot.
Last time I was in England my "friends" bought me this horrible stuff called "Scrumpy". I'll stick to normal beer!
My Dear Joe,
If your friends in the UK got you onto Scrumpy, then you have no need for enemies my friend ! Scrumpy is rough cider and used to be the tipple of farmers labourers in the west country. Stay clear and stay well is the motto !!
I have looked at the photos you sent me for comparison and I see clearly what you mean about the base. I am not so sure about the perlrings on the spike as they seem pretty good to my untrained eye.
Previously you asked me to look at the fixings for the wappen plate. They are long, sort of flat pronged split pins , one on each side. I also poked around and note that there are 2 holes lower down and not quite as far appart as the current ones, which I assume means they were filled in when the other were drilled. Hence the odd wappenplate. But, I must admit the wappen plate is nice.
I will try to send you a photo or two of the inside front of the helmet but I anticipate problems, as it is difficult to get at.
Yours aye
Jock
If your friends in the UK got you onto Scrumpy, then you have no need for enemies my friend ! Scrumpy is rough cider and used to be the tipple of farmers labourers in the west country. Stay clear and stay well is the motto !!
I have looked at the photos you sent me for comparison and I see clearly what you mean about the base. I am not so sure about the perlrings on the spike as they seem pretty good to my untrained eye.
Previously you asked me to look at the fixings for the wappen plate. They are long, sort of flat pronged split pins , one on each side. I also poked around and note that there are 2 holes lower down and not quite as far appart as the current ones, which I assume means they were filled in when the other were drilled. Hence the odd wappenplate. But, I must admit the wappen plate is nice.
I will try to send you a photo or two of the inside front of the helmet but I anticipate problems, as it is difficult to get at.
Yours aye
Jock
joerookery
Well-known member
Don't take the wappen off you will break the prongs! More to follow.
joerookery
Well-known member
Jock,
I was hoping some others would jump in, but here you go. Maybe this will generate some other discussion. This is my opinion not Gospel.
Starting with number one in the picture; normally long thin prongs like this are a bad sign of replacement. We already know that this has been replaced. Most but not all round spike bases had a round reinforcing plate on the inside. There is some controversy as to whether any of these helmets had a reinforcing plate on the outside or not.
Number two has two parts. There is the extra hole on the front end of the round base and there is an impression that looks like it was formed by a cruciform base. Could there have been some sort of cruciform base on this helmet at some time?
Number three shows an extra set of slits. Often these were used for mounting some few wappen. Often these wappen were not military-- police or fire. Normally when you see a second set of holes, they are just that holes.
Number four looks like there is a grommet around the prongs. While grommets are a good sign, the normal method of mounting and issued wappen is through loops, not prongs.
So I do not like the wappen. Looks non-detailed from the front. I hope others will add or shoot holes in what I just said.
Lost Skeleton
Well-known member
Hi Joe:
My two cents regarding the Wappen:
Look at the proportions. It certainly appears smaller than a Pickelhaube Wappen. I'd be willing to bet, if genuine, this is actually from a Tschapka; specifically, Ulanen-Regt. Kaiser Alexander III. von Rußland.
Tony would be able to confirm this when Jock provides some measurements.
It's undeniably a parts helmet, but there are some pretty interesting parts involved.
Chas.
My two cents regarding the Wappen:
Look at the proportions. It certainly appears smaller than a Pickelhaube Wappen. I'd be willing to bet, if genuine, this is actually from a Tschapka; specifically, Ulanen-Regt. Kaiser Alexander III. von Rußland.
Tony would be able to confirm this when Jock provides some measurements.
It's undeniably a parts helmet, but there are some pretty interesting parts involved.
Chas.