JR 179 OR's Helme

b.loree

b.loree

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I have had this helmet in my collection since the mid 1980's. I bought it at a local antique show about 30 min south of Barrie. It is dated 1896 but its heavy construction suggests that is older than that. Of note....elongated front visor, heavy gauge leather, no vent in the rear spine, thicker visor trim than the M95, domed split brad holding the spine on the rear visor. The wappen is screw post and square nuts and the brass spine has a post and nut soldered mid way. The spike top is non removable and held on by split brads. It has some obvious shrapnel damage which is the reason for this post. We got into a discussion in the "latest find" section over a JR 109 which Ed has just purchased, that has a shrapnel hole in it. I decided to post some pics of mine. This helme came complete with original strap and all fittings nothing was missing which is unusual as we all know.
Anyway, this is a great old beast in excellent condition except for those small in and out holes in the shell. I doubt Fritz survived this one. Markings: 179R, 1896, IIB, 5K, III.
The Fotos:








IN:

OUT:
 
Fine Saxon indeed !
Do you think this is a modified older PH pattern ? Possible !
Can you see some patched up holes at the inside of the helmetshell (from repositioned sideposts) ?

Thank you,

Francis
 
I don't see any corresponding holes in the liner, where the outside holes are, it would have gone straight through the mans head. Inside your helmet would be gore. Perhaps this is some sort of damage from it kicking around for 100 years. Garage or something? But it is a superb example, so nice and complete. :bravo:
 
Looks like someone shot it with a .22. Over the years I have seen more than a few helmets that had damage inflicted after the war. I had a very nice early WW2 American steel helmet and a nice German M16
that had dents from the previous owner shooting at them with a .45 "to see if it would go through them". To be fair, this was done in the 1950s when the helmets didn't have the collectible status they do now. Thus, I am always suspect of battle damage.
Steve
 
ottodog8 said:
Looks like someone shot it with a .22. Over the years I have seen more than a few helmets that had damage inflicted after the war. I had a very nice early WW2 American steel helmet and a nice German M16
that had dents from the previous owner shooting at them with a .45 "to see if it would go through them". To be fair, this was done in the 1950s when the helmets didn't have the collectible status they do now. Thus, I am always suspect of battle damage.
Steve
Click to expand...

I agree with Steve. At any rate, if the damage did occur during wartime, Fritz was obviously not inside the helmet...
This is a great M91, Brian!
 
I once had a M'16 that had the rear of the helmet ripped open. The helmet had a tag from the US Army Signal Corp identifying it as to where and when it was recovered, that the damage was from shrapnel, and the wearer was killed.
The blood had ruined the leather of the liner.
 
Very interesting analysis guys, thank you. It just goes to show that many minds are better than one. No holes in the liner which if it were shrapnel, or a post war target, there would be. There are no extra holes in the shell which would be there if this were a cut down version of an older helmet. The shell is also one piece, no stitching up the back which we see on the older helmets. So, as with so many of these pieces..... we will never know.
 
That's a great helmet! I have a M16 with a bullet hole at the front and no exit hole as well as several smaller holes (shrapnel?). I have no idea whether these holes represent true battle damage but it gives my helmet a nice story.

Regards,

Edwin
 
Nice helmet! Looks to me like a wire of some sort was pushed through it. If it was shot at with anything and the liner wasn't turned inside out (why do that if you're going to shoot at it?), there would be holes in the liner. A wire, on the other hand, might slide the liner forward. Really though, it doesn't matter, it's a nice looking helmet in all other respects! :) One I wouldn't mind in my collection.

I also have some battle damaged helmets, one from the Brenner Pass in Austria and another from the 2nd Battle of the Marne, both brought home by locals; one tourist in 1919, the other by a vet.. Finally, I have a WWII M42 Stahlhelm with a BIG compression crack in it. The first helmet shows signs of the person having been shot while wearing it (a bullet hole that should have an exit hole in the front) and the second was laying on the ground when it recieved damage. The last one, if somebody was in it, they didn't last long.

:D Ron
 
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