JzP 8 "Von Waldersee"

planzero

Member
For those of you who were watching this curiosity on live auctioneers here it is cleaned up a bit. I still can't believe how few people bid on this considering it was the featured helmet of the auction and the same auction sold a relatively dull looking paratrooper helmet for $25,000 (!) and a cardboard Nazi police hand traffic signal sold for the same price this helmet sold for. The universe seriously gifted me, I have a strictly low budget by metalhelm standards. The auction house misidentified this EM helmet as belonging to General Alfred Von Waldersee of the Franco Prussian war, even though he was dead long before WW1.
I surmise this helmet was possibly part of the Liberty bond drive, and an American entrepreneur decided to stamp Von Waldersee on the visor to make this the ultimate prize for the highest seller. I say this because Georg Von Waldersee was chief of staff of the 8th army very briefly in 1914, and is virtually unknown otherwise, or post war. This is my opinion. It's an odd choice of name to counterfeit considering it's length. However the bond drive didn't start until 1917 so it's definitely not an opinion based in fact, and could have been done later but the stamping is definitely very old. If someone wants to educate me to another possibility I'm more than willing to learn. If this is the reason no one else bid I'm more than happy to own it.
Examining several photos online of four almost identical J.P. 8 dated 1914/1915 helmets that always seem to be in very similar condition, it is safe to say these helmets stood out from all the rest because of the gold fittings and the average uneducated bond salesman in 1917/18 would have logically thought they were officer helmets in a sea of grey. Opening a box of prize helmets, these had to be like literally finding the golden ticket. I've always heard and thought most 1915 mehalhelms on the market were unissued, Liberty bond or NYC pyramid helmets from the Coblenz warehouse haul. I'm not sure if that's still the consensus because I'm not necessarily a helmet collector, I just own about a dozen of the essentials and have a couple more to go, but they're all usually in rough or fair condition. I'd say this is in reasonably good condition.

Anyway here's some pics of "Eerie Von Waldersee". Like many of these 1915 helms found in unkempt storage condition, this was in a NYC "collection", the helmet was completely covered in a layer of dried oil under fresh oil, which was eroding the finish so I gently removed it to reveal a slightly pitted surface which lightened the parkerized finish around the crown and front visor. It's a shame to see the contrast of the pristine surface under the spike and wappen, but at least I saved it's life and no matter what it's probably one of a kind. If I didn't get it for such a low price I probably wouldn't be too happy with this discovery because nothing was evident in the terribly lit listing. If anyone else has a "customized" helmet I'd love to see it!

It had a silver bolt on the spike base so I replaced it with one from a replica Kürassierhelm. Ironically my real 1889 kürassierhelm also has a period replaced mismatched stud as well. The stiff leather liner cord I added is holding up the saggy liner.
Needless to say I'm very happy to be the custodian of this beautiful specimen as long as I'm alive. It's definitely the star of my meager helmet collection.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20250408_130156498.jpg
    IMG_20250408_130156498.jpg
    1.2 MB · Views: 93
  • Screenshot_20250324-115010~2.png
    Screenshot_20250324-115010~2.png
    786 KB · Views: 94
  • IMG_20250406_185446254.jpg
    IMG_20250406_185446254.jpg
    1.3 MB · Views: 97
  • IMG_20250408_110341101.jpg
    IMG_20250408_110341101.jpg
    840.7 KB · Views: 89
  • IMG_20250408_110232568.jpg
    IMG_20250408_110232568.jpg
    889 KB · Views: 89
  • IMG_20250408_110221020.jpg
    IMG_20250408_110221020.jpg
    1.5 MB · Views: 81
  • IMG_20250408_130225387.jpg
    IMG_20250408_130225387.jpg
    1 MB · Views: 77
  • IMG_20250408_130214133.jpg
    IMG_20250408_130214133.jpg
    1.1 MB · Views: 77
  • IMG_20250408_130121296.jpg
    IMG_20250408_130121296.jpg
    1.1 MB · Views: 87
For those of you who were watching this curiosity on live auctioneers here it is cleaned up a bit. I still can't believe how few people bid on this considering it was the featured helmet of the auction and the same auction sold a relatively dull looking paratrooper helmet for $25,000 (!) and a cardboard Nazi police hand traffic signal sold for the same price this helmet sold for. The universe seriously gifted me, I have a strictly low budget by metalhelm standards. The auction house misidentified this EM helmet as belonging to General Alfred Von Waldersee of the Franco Prussian war, even though he was dead long before WW1.
I surmise this helmet was possibly part of the Liberty bond drive, and an American entrepreneur decided to stamp Von Waldersee on the visor to make this the ultimate prize for the highest seller. I say this because Georg Von Waldersee was chief of staff of the 8th army very briefly in 1914, and is virtually unknown otherwise, or post war. This is my opinion. It's an odd choice of name to counterfeit considering it's length. However the bond drive didn't start until 1917 so it's definitely not an opinion based in fact, and could have been done later but the stamping is definitely very old. If someone wants to educate me to another possibility I'm more than willing to learn. If this is the reason no one else bid I'm more than happy to own it.
Examining several photos online of four almost identical J.P. 8 dated 1914/1915 helmets that always seem to be in very similar condition, it is safe to say these helmets stood out from all the rest because of the gold fittings and the average uneducated bond salesman in 1917/18 would have logically thought they were officer helmets in a sea of grey. Opening a box of prize helmets, these had to be like literally finding the golden ticket. I've always heard and thought most 1915 mehalhelms on the market were unissued, Liberty bond or NYC pyramid helmets from the Coblenz warehouse haul. I'm not sure if that's still the consensus because I'm not necessarily a helmet collector, I just own about a dozen of the essentials and have a couple more to go, but they're all usually in rough or fair condition. I'd say this is in reasonably good condition.

Anyway here's some pics of "Eerie Von Waldersee". Like many of these 1915 helms found in unkempt storage condition, this was in a NYC "collection", the helmet was completely covered in a layer of dried oil under fresh oil, which was eroding the finish so I gently removed it to reveal a slightly pitted surface which lightened the parkerized finish around the crown and front visor. It's a shame to see the contrast of the pristine surface under the spike and wappen, but at least I saved it's life and no matter what it's probably one of a kind. If I didn't get it for such a low price I probably wouldn't be too happy with this discovery because nothing was evident in the terribly lit listing. If anyone else has a "customized" helmet I'd love to see it!

It had a silver bolt on the spike base so I replaced it with one from a replica Kürassierhelm. Ironically my real 1889 kürassierhelm also has a period replaced mismatched stud as well. The stiff leather liner cord I added is holding up the saggy liner.
Needless to say I'm very happy to be the custodian of this beautiful specimen as long as I'm alive. It's definitely the star of my meager helmet collection.
Nice one
Steve
 
Nice example of a JzP 8. The stamped letters in the name on the tombak trim do not match the J. P. 8 script, so it is curious. You did a great job cleaning it up! Congratulations on the procurement!

Cheers,
Tim
 
Exactly, although if there ever was a name stamped on an EM helmet (which obviously shouldn't happen on govt property) it would have been personalized and done after those stamps and not in the same font as the regimental or size numbers, just like the manufacturer stamp font is different.
Unless there's a contrasting theory, as I stated above I'm assuming it was done by a NY seller or Liberty bond broker looking to increase the desirability considering there were thousands available and these particular models stood out from the rest because of their yellow trim. Naturally to the uneducated consumer these could be marketed as officer helmets, and General Von Waldersee was chief of staff briefly before the liberty bond prizes were being pushed. Otherwise I can't imagine why the entrepreneur would pick such a long name to hand stamp.
I was really hoping someone else had a similar helmet, perhaps with another General's name on it for comparison. Regardless it definitely makes it unique, and I won the helmet for the price of a pickelhaube because nobody else bid so I'm definitely not complaining!
 
This looks like something that was done in our time, by an over enthusiastic collector or seller. Countless items have been bitched-up to sell. German flight badge fiascos for example. It doesn’t detract your nice Metalhelm, you were most fortunate! I would treat it like a collector’s name written on a liner or whatever and ignore it. . Mine

46C2BEAB-2E31-4E78-9320-336563F56B9A.jpeg
 
This looks like something that was done in our time, by an over enthusiastic collector or seller. Countless items have been bitched-up to sell. German flight badge fiascos for example. It doesn’t detract your nice Metalhelm, you were most fortunate! I would treat it like a collector’s name written on a liner or whatever and ignore it. . Mine
Thanks Tony although I disagree that it was done in modern times for my previously stated reasons, but I'll repeat my theory again. Besides looking like deep old patination in the depths of the stamps relative to the surrounding trim, which I chose not to clean (the entire helmet was black and filthy with neglected grease grime when I got it and needed to be scrubbed clean; this was definitely not well cared for)
Gen. Von Waldersee was not exactly a household name post war, but when these helmets were being pushed as Liberty bond prizes, or even when the thousands of helms from the NYC pyramids were resold by NYC dealers (this came from a NYC estate) his name would have still been relevant. It's a long name to hand stamp compared to Ludendorff, for example.
Also, considering the ignorance about German helmets in the US at the time thousands were pilfered, I can't imagine anyone being so foolish as to put a General's name on an EM helmet in modern times, but 100+ years ago when these gold trimmed models stood out from the rest of the stash they could easily be marketed as offizierhelm.
I really like to think it was done by a Liberty bond broker pushing the unique prize, but a retailer is just as likely. Remember, there were thousands of mint condition kürassierhelm available during and after WW1 so "enthusiastic" brazen sellers would have been much more prevalent 100 years ago when these weren't worth $1-2K+ without a name. And unlike most faked items, helmets don't normally have engraved owner names in the first place. Hence my theory.
I am sure there are similar specimens out there; I was hoping this thread would attract one!
 
Back
Top