Kaiserliche Marine – Werft Division Cap

Steve Nick

Well-known member
I don’t seem to be able to find a lot of reference material re. the Kaiserliche Marine.

This cap belonged to a Herr Buschman who was a member of the Werft Division and appears to have served on board S.M.S. Koenig Wilhelm (note that the cap tally spells the ship's name in the alternative way with an "E" after the "O" to replace the umlaut).

The enlisted ranks of the Imperial Navy were composed of the "Matrosen Division", (above deck crew) such as sailors and gunners whose cap tallies were embroidered in yellow metallic thread and below-deck crew the "Werft Division" such as technicians, mechanics, craftsmen and stokers who wore white metallic thread on their cap tallies from 1884 onwards.

There were two Werft Divisions, the I. in Kiel and the II. in Wilhelmshaven. They were the depot organizations for the noncommissioned personnel (Warrant Officers, NCOs and Ratings) primarily of the technical branches of the Navy including, machinists, stokers, tradesmen, medical personnel, writers and paymaster aspirants. They provided initial recruit training for conscripts and volunteers and provided the land-based organization for administrative purposes for the above-mentioned personnel.

The interior of the cap has a hand inked/painted II W which I think means 2nd Werft Division Wilhelmshaven. This seems odd in that by 1904 the ship was based in Kiel which was designated Werft Division I. Unless when the ship was moved to Murwick in 1909 she was considered to be part of the Wilhelmshaven organization? Can’t be sure what time period the cap dates to. It’s also possible that the tally isn’t original to the cap. It’s pretty easy to change them.

I’m not an expert on the Imperial Navy and I invite anyone better schooled in this area to enlighten me on anything I’ve misunderstood.

Here is a short history of S.M.S. König Wilhelm.

S.M.S. König Wilhelm (King William) was an armored frigate the German Imperial Navy. The ship was laid down in 1865 at the Thames Ironworks shipyard in London, under the name Fatih for the Ottoman Empire. She was purchased by Prussia in February 1867, and commissioned into the Prussian Navy in February 1869. She was armed with a main battery of sixteen 24 cm (9.4 in) and five 21 cm (8.3 in) guns; several smaller guns and torpedo tubes were added later in her career.

The ship was for a time the largest and most powerful warship in the German navy. König Wilhelm was converted into an armored cruiser in 1895–1896. By early 1904, however, she had been superseded by newer vessels and was removed from active duty. Starting in May 1904, she became a harbor ship as well as a barracks ship and then a training vessel for naval cadets, based in Kiel, starting in October 1907.

In 1909, König Wilhelm was moved to the Naval Academy at Murwick where she continued these duties. König Wilhelm served through The Great War. On 4 January 1921, the ship was stricken from the Naval register and broken up for scrap.
 

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Very, very nice!
It is in extremely good shape. Does it have a stiffener in the front like a Schirmmütze?
Mine has a stiffener that seems to be made of nitrocellulose or very early bakelite.
I don't think that I have ever seen an umlaut used on these caps. They seemed to always use an "OE" or "UE".
Here's mine:

7vrJd4I.jpg


John :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:
 
Thanks. I got this via Manion's years ago. I've always liked it although I'd prefer that it had a tally to a more prestigious ship like yours does.

It doesn't have a stiffener of any sort.

I'm guessing the lack of umlauts is due to the machine stitching using only stock letters and no ability to generate "special" characters while maintaining the font height?

Appreciate the input. I'm noticing that posts don't seem to generate a lot of feedback on this forum ?
 
Great post! I learned a great deal about the Imperial Navy from this. My thanks :thumb up:
 
Steve Nick said:
// I'm noticing that posts don't seem to generate a lot of feedback on this forum ?//

Steve sometimes when you post something somewhat 'obscure' (like Kaiserliche Marine) you will get views, but often no comments. I tend to say nothing if I have nothing useful to contribute, or its out of my knowledge area. That is a very nice write-up you did.
 
Tony:

Thanks for your comments.

Re. feedback on posts. I understand what you're saying. I also tend not to comment unless I think I'm on pretty firm ground. The Pickelhaube community is fairly small relative to the 3rd Reich community and I expect the number of folks who are interested in the Kaiserliche Marine is considerably smaller than the Pickelhaube group.

I joined this forum because I'm also posting on the GHW2 site which is overwhelmingly 3rd Reich oriented. Sometimes I feel like I'm a voice in the wilderness at GHW2. Great bunch but just not keen on "pointy hats" as my wife calls them.

Re. the write-up. I try to be as informative as I can (which on this forum may be "preaching to the converted") but I enjoy doing the research and it forces me to educate or re-educate myself on the topic at hand.

Cheers:

Steve
 
Steve Nick said:
Thanks. I got this via Manion's years ago. I've always liked it although I'd prefer that it had a tally to a more prestigious ship like yours does.

I'm not sure what you mean by "prestigious".
The Bluecher is primarily famous for this photograph:

ltgn9vl.jpg


She, the SMS Bluecher, was basically sacrificed in the Battle of Dogger Bank to save other German battlecruisers.
I'm not sure prestigious is the term I'd use. Un-freakin'-lucky might better apply.

John :)
 
Steve Nick said:
Appreciate the input. I'm noticing that posts don't seem to generate a lot of feedback on this forum ?

Don't worry about it. I know it takes a long time to generate a post, and that you put a lot of work into it. I used to be disappointed when I added a post and nobody seemed to care. I now firmly believe that the lack of comments is a good thing. That generally means that nobody has anything to bitch about! If you ever purchase and post a helmet with a problem, real or perceived, you will definitely get feedback. When you add posts, like the ones you have submitted, that show thorough research, full explanations, and history, both of the piece and your ownership, there is nothing for anybody to ask or complain about.
When I submit a post and see 500 views and 1 comment that means "I did good".
Where this forum really excels, IMO, is when you have a question or need help before a purchase. I have been saved from making poor purchases several times because of this forum. My most recent example involved a Kugel that did not unscrew on a Garde artillery helmet. I asked a question and within one day received an answer, with documentation, that helped me make my decision.
Stick around, there is a lot to be learned here.

John :)
 
John:

Appreciate the input.

You're probably right that "no news is good news" in this forum.

You're clearly right about the level,of expertise here. I did a lot of "stealthing" before registering and it's clear that there are people considerably more knowledgeable than myself here.

I'm not doing much buying these days. I'm recently retired so funds aren't as readily disposable as they once were. I also downsized a couple of years ago. Sold about twenty helmets and kept what I thought were the best ones or those that have issues such as improper parts. I'm now looking to restore some helmets using the correct parts.

I'm going to keep posting as I enjoy doing the research and hopefully a few people will find them educational.

BTW re. prestigious, when the SMS Bluecher is mentioned that's certainly the image that comes to mind, but at least she went to sea. Koenig Wilhelm spent the war tied to a pier. :D

Cheers:

Steve
 
As a retired High School History teacher of 37 years, I appreciate well researched, informative posts so both of you keep up the great work. I may be retired but I never tire of learning!
 
I was going to retire this year, but current events may have put a hold on that.
I'm sure the market will recover. I'll just have to bide my time until it does.
It is amazing how much can change overnight.
I'm just waiting to see a Pickelhaube for sale on Ebay that says;
"Buy it now $1200 or 20 rolls of toilet paper!"

I live in the southwest US and I have noticed one big change in my area.
You NEVER hear anybody say "I hope to celebrate Cinco de Mayo with a case of Corona" anymore!

John :)
 
You NEVER hear anybody say "I hope to celebrate Cinco de Mayo with a case of Corona" anymore!

Good one!

Wasn't it the Chinese who also brought us...

"May you live in interesting times" ?
 
SkipperJohn said:
//She, the SMS Bluecher, was basically sacrificed in the Battle of Dogger Bank to save other German battlecruisers. //

I'll crank this up a notch. I have a 21cm SK L45 casing from SMS Blücher.

Here a the link to more photos and my standard verbose write up. http://www.kaisersbunker.com/cc/cc11.htm

cc11.jpg
 
Well...that was interesting.

How on earth did you manage to find that casing?

There can't have been a lot of those casings to survive being salvaged for the brass during the 3rd Reich period.
 
Wow Tony!
That makes for one hell-of-a umbrella stand!
It also brings up another question:
How can you be certain that a Naval Schirm is authentic?
You can find thousands of those things, and maybe, just maybe, one is real.
Any hints?

John :)
 
It's no different from any Schirmmütze John, in that you are looking for age, construction, etc.

Here is the link to the Deckoffizier above http://www.kaisersbunker.com/km/km16.htm

I have yet to see a copy that was convincing, as they all look new, because they are. Or, its just an old Marine cap that has been 'upgraded'. My preference, was to obtain caps with German Manufacturer's markings as that is a positive sign.

Oh, that 21cm SK L45 is not one of the 'big ones' here... http://www.kaisersbunker.com/cc/
 
Tony:

I had a look around your artillery shell casings section.

Well, actually it was a lot more than a look. Pretty much spent the morning on it.

It's a really outstanding piece of work and a fascinating read. I was really impressed with the text re. the Big Bertha assembly procedure.

Also finally found an explanation of the markings on my 77mm shell casing that I've had for decades but never knew much more than the year it was manufactured (1917) Still can't explain two marks. Perhaps I could PM you on them?

Also, if you encountered a wicker shell casing basket is there any means of identifying one?

Cheers:

Steve
 
Thanks Tony. It seems that I see more Navy Schirmmutze fakes than any others.

It is surprising to me that a 21cm shell wasn't separate loading. It seems like a tremendous waste of brass.
Was that round fixed or semi-fixed?

In keeping with the nautical theme of this post, here is the rest of the SMS Bluecher ensemble:

L9eRlcq.png


John :)
 
Very nice set John.

All Marine Cannon above 8,8cm are semi-fixed (projectile then cartridge casing), or separate, with the projectile (shell) being rammed home, followed by bag charges (dependant on range) followed by the cartridge casing, which a essentially a giant primer.

SkipperJohn said:
//It is surprising to me that a 21cm shell wasn't separate loading. It seems like a tremendous waste of brass. Was that round fixed or semi-fixed? //
 
Steve: Great write up! I also have trouble finding information on Kaiserliche Marine, at least written in the English language! Cheers. Dick
 
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