KR2 Helmet---SOS 2014

Very odd. That is an infantry 1870 reserve eagle. The tail feathers are straight on a Kurassier eagle.
Click to expand...

I don't know that I agree with this entirely. I don't know how you can identify it as infantry. While it is not clear it certainly looks from the back that it has the three top tail feathers used for foot troops. But you cannot see it from the front at all nor can you see this place between the wings and the legs from the front. From the back that space looks like a mounted troops Eagle. There is a picture of the front in Lacarde volume 2 page 22. Unfortunately that is not a reserve plate in the picture. So it appears as though some places on this Eagle have some characteristics of foot troops. Was that unique to this regiment? Did it have something to do with a reserve status? It certainly was made this way and the shell has been around long enough for it to be reused at some point with the second set of holes. The chin scales are from an older application, looks like the shell was also. I is all works out with the simple question of why was this different?
 
I'm actually writing an article – not a book =D> =D> on this bandeau. Yes indeed I am going to update the website after our next trip. I am just starting but I cannot find the date of authorization for the bandeau. Am I looking at the wrong references or does somebody know this? Where can I look? :-k
 
Joe,
In J-L Larcade, Volume II; Original; pages 13 and 14.

This is from my translation of J-L Larcade; Volume II; page 8


1845: 08 may 1845: on the occasion of the 100 th anniversary of the victory at Hohenfriedberg the Regiment No. 2 by AKO was rewarded a honorable mention: the helmets were equipped with a brass- 3 cm wide banderole (Ribon)-, bordered and secured above the frontvisor by means of the two rivets of this visor. *Banderolle (Ribon) wore this inscription: "Hohenfriedberg den 4. Juni 1745". Simplified in 1861, as we shall see further on.
1853:
It will take ten years or so for the military administration to decide on a very disturbing element to improve on the design of the helmet Mod 1843:
the visor attached on the outside of the helmetshell … in case of rain the water seeped between the shell and the visor on the horsemans face. 1953: By order of the Ministry of war was prescribed to have the visors attached on the inside of the helmetshell.
The upper metal board of the visor was removed and a metal strip(nickel silver or brass), was placed then, on the joint of visor top and helmetshell.
The visor was fixed by means of three rivets: one at the centre front and two at both ends (as before).
The Offz helmets underwent the same modifications: thus resulting in the Mod 1853 helmet.
1860:
10 may 1860: AKO: the "Vaterlandbandeau" (the Vaterland Banner) is added to the Helmwappen. For the Line Kurassier Regts Nrs 1 to 8 this modification is the same as those for the Line Infantry Helmet Eagles with the same text; "Mit Gott für Koenig und Vaterland".
For the two Guard Regts this bandeau (ribbon) is placed circular around the Garde Stern (Guard Star) with the text: "Mit Gott für König und Vaterland-1860”.
1861:
20 July 1861:
AKO: *this banderolle is changed: it is worn at the bottom side of the eagles body. The space is more limited and the text has been simplified: "Hohenfriedberg 4. Juni 1745".

Rgds,
Francis
 
Francis,

Thank you – I looked at the original and did not see it – finally I looked at your translation. You think by now I would be smart enough to do it the other way around. ](*,)

I had found the simplification in 1861 but I was trying to figure out the why/when of the double holes and when the shell was introduced into the inventory. I might be barking up the wrong tree based on a change of Wappen. Interesting. Thanks again! =D>
 
R1 Gave me a private nudge and told me to look at The German Cavalry from 1871 to 1914, Uniforms and Equipment by Herr and Nguyen pages 224 through 239. I had this reference entire time but like a dummy did not look. On page 235 there is a picture of an officers helmet with a Landwehr cross. And wouldn't you know it it has the same bandeau. There in living color. So this is a little-known unadvertised fact it seems as though those helmets with a Landwehr cross had a different bandeau then the active forces. I looked at a lot of references but not this one – my bad. Thanks to R1!
 
First of the new articles.

http://pickelhauben.net/articles/KR2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Thanks! What I like about it most is that we brought to highlight the little-known fact about the Wappen. Before we figured it out I got a series of emails that said basically no way – Wappen Is bad. Once again the great value of the collector community helping each other out. :thumb up:
 
I have observed that Reservist's plates that employ this style of bandeau omit the "tails" on either side of the feet; this applies to other regiments as well. Plates of active soldiers/officer's were made with the "tails" as part of the main stamping, and only had the centre part of the bandeau separately applied. I have NEVER seen a reservist's or Landwehr plate, that omits the "Mitt Gott" scroll, yet also has the "tails"...
 
I have observed that Reservist's plates that employ this style of bandeau omit the "tails" on either side of the feet; this applies to other regiments as well.
Click to expand...

well this is a major point. We need to start some sort of a comparison of examples and see exactly which regiments! This is a story!
 
There are examples of this phenomenon with relation to Fusilier Regts. 33-34 in Johansson p. 41 and in Stubbs on pgs. 134-35. There were also some artillery battalions that employed this style of bandeau, but pics of reservist's helmets are hard to find...
 
Arran said:
I have observed that Reservist's plates that employ this style of bandeau omit the "tails" on either side of the feet; this applies to other regiments as well. Plates of active soldiers/officer's were made with the "tails" as part of the main stamping, and only had the centre part of the bandeau separately applied. I have NEVER seen a reservist's or Landwehr plate, that omits the "Mitt Gott" scroll, yet also has the "tails"...
Click to expand...

Here is one, Arran:



The flash makes the plate look shiny, whereas it has an almost perfect matt "Vergoldung". I will make better pictures in daylight.
 
Thanks for posting this! Its the first time I've seen this configuration. I think we have to assume that the Reserve plates with absent tails are merely a variation rather than an official mandate...
 
Arran said:
Thanks for posting this! Its the first time I've seen this configuration. I think we have to assume that the Reserve plates with absent tails are merely a variation rather than an official mandate...
Click to expand...
Amen! Even more examples now. You two gentlemen have really found a narrow crevice. Thank you!
 
Bruno,

Let me know when you get your new picture that I can put into an article. With your find and Arran's citations I should be able to add this to the KR2 article. This is a real discovery I think and you two deserve a pat on the back. :thumb up:
 
joerookery said:
Bruno,

Let me know when you get your new picture that I can put into an article. With your find and Arran's citations I should be able to add this to the KR2 article. This is a real discovery I think and you two deserve a pat on the back. :thumb up:
Click to expand...

Pictures sent, Joe.
I noticed in Johansson's book, p41, a Reserve IR34 officer helmet without the "tails", and p40 a Reserve GR9 officer helmet (Colberg 1807) with the tails...
Bruno
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top