Joe, I cannot find this in my refs, any idea which Armee-Korps the 61 Landwehr Brigade fell under? And if so, that should tell me what helmet they wore. Already checked Das Deutsches Heer in the color plates, I cannot find 61 Brigade.
Landwehr Brigade question for Joe
- Thread starter Tony without Kaiser
- Start date
joerookery
Well-known member
I thought I could just look that up -- not so easy -- the problem is that several of the Army Corps data bits that I have are out of standard. XV XVI, and XVII Army Corps for some reason are problems. So I do not have a definitive map area but I was able to back into it through the brigade ersatz battalions. Looks like XV Corps -- I can tell you all about the Landwehr-Inspektion's there but not the brigade headquarters! Interestingly enough the ersatz battalion for 61st brigade was one of 20 battalions that was not up associated. But it did exist and came out of the XV Corps area.
There was also a 61st LIR in XVII corps but I do not think that is what you're looking for. What led you on this great chase?
There was also a 61st LIR in XVII corps but I do not think that is what you're looking for. What led you on this great chase?
So you think the 61 Landwehr Brigade fell under XV Corps?
I am curious, as I was looking at a pre-war red 61 Landwehr Brigade shoulder strap, and could not figure out what they wore for a Pickelhaube.
So you say it is XV Corps? Is that a "probably" or "it did"?
I am curious, as I was looking at a pre-war red 61 Landwehr Brigade shoulder strap, and could not figure out what they wore for a Pickelhaube.
So you say it is XV Corps? Is that a "probably" or "it did"?
joerookery
Well-known member
Yes the old which unit wore which wappen question! Quite a while ago I began my search with that question. I don't know the difference in shoulder straps -- perhaps you could explain that?
I think I know better what your question is now here is black and white:
the 61st Landwehr brigade did not exist until 28 March 1915. Prior to that it was named 52nd Landwehr brigade. Upon mobilization many Landwehr and Landsturm units were moved into mixed Landwehr brigade's but none of them bore the name 61. Both of 52nd Landwehr brigade and the 61st Landwehr brigade were independent. Neither of them were subjected to a corps hierarchy for command-and-control.
61st brigade was part of the 39th division of XV Army Corps. The XV Army Corps administrative area included a 61st brigade area but I do not know its boundaries nor its major cities. I think it was entirely contained in Straußburg but I am not sure. All Landwehr-Bizirke's of XV Army Corps seem to have identical initials identifying them instead of cities or brigade areas. The brigade ersatz Battalion 61 was in XV Army Corps area.
So my take would be that the Landwehr-Bizirke 61 was contained in XV Army Corps area and that there was no 61st Landwehr brigade prewar.
So I would guess Prussian. Isn't that a long-winded answer?!
I think I know better what your question is now here is black and white:
the 61st Landwehr brigade did not exist until 28 March 1915. Prior to that it was named 52nd Landwehr brigade. Upon mobilization many Landwehr and Landsturm units were moved into mixed Landwehr brigade's but none of them bore the name 61. Both of 52nd Landwehr brigade and the 61st Landwehr brigade were independent. Neither of them were subjected to a corps hierarchy for command-and-control.
61st brigade was part of the 39th division of XV Army Corps. The XV Army Corps administrative area included a 61st brigade area but I do not know its boundaries nor its major cities. I think it was entirely contained in Straußburg but I am not sure. All Landwehr-Bizirke's of XV Army Corps seem to have identical initials identifying them instead of cities or brigade areas. The brigade ersatz Battalion 61 was in XV Army Corps area.
So my take would be that the Landwehr-Bizirke 61 was contained in XV Army Corps area and that there was no 61st Landwehr brigade prewar.
So I would guess Prussian. Isn't that a long-winded answer?!
Just what I needed Joe, thanks very much. Its very interesting, that a Brigade that did not exist until 28 March 1915 would still be producing red shoulder straps and Dunkelblau Waffenrock. If the date is correct, that really extends the time into the 1st war that Dunelblau was still being worn and manufactured. Much appreciated.joerookery said:
Hey Tony,
I would suspect that the production of the Dunkelblau Waffenrock was not so much by 1915, and that for the most part, the Landwehr was issued Waffenrock that had been used by units that were now wearing the Feldgrau, and the production of red shoulder straps would be expected to maintain the correct insignia for the Dunkelblau uniform.
Best wihses
Gus
I would suspect that the production of the Dunkelblau Waffenrock was not so much by 1915, and that for the most part, the Landwehr was issued Waffenrock that had been used by units that were now wearing the Feldgrau, and the production of red shoulder straps would be expected to maintain the correct insignia for the Dunkelblau uniform.
Best wihses
Gus
joerookery
Well-known member
Just another piece of the puzzle.
Pierre Grande Guerre
New member
I had some difficulty to find the 61st Landwehr Brigade in my sources. Though memorials sometimes lie, I did found a trace of 61 Landwehr Brigade. From my travel notes about Markirch, nowadays Sainte Marie aux Mines, France, near the Pass of (Col de) Sainte Marie...
There is a memorial on the Deutscher Soldaten Friedhof of Sainte Marie aux Mines, erected by the 61st. Landwehr Brigade.
It seems they were also active in guarding the Bernhardstein, or the east side of the Tête du Violu, north of Le Bonhomme. For which period exactly is not very clear to me.
If I am correct, this sector of the Vosges front belonged to the VIIth Army von Heeringen.
Besides, according to one of my sources, 3 battallions of the LIR 80 were guarding almost the whole war period the Bernhardstein and the sector around Markirch.
If usefull, I can post a picture of the memorial and inscription.
There is a memorial on the Deutscher Soldaten Friedhof of Sainte Marie aux Mines, erected by the 61st. Landwehr Brigade.
It seems they were also active in guarding the Bernhardstein, or the east side of the Tête du Violu, north of Le Bonhomme. For which period exactly is not very clear to me.
If I am correct, this sector of the Vosges front belonged to the VIIth Army von Heeringen.
Besides, according to one of my sources, 3 battallions of the LIR 80 were guarding almost the whole war period the Bernhardstein and the sector around Markirch.
If usefull, I can post a picture of the memorial and inscription.
joerookery
Well-known member
yes Pierre please post it! I absolutely love your pictures. It allows me to see things that I cannot walk to -- you do a great service to people. =D> =D> =D>
Pierre Grande Guerre
New member
Joe, you have helped me so many times, that it is a pleasure for me to post these pictures.
Around 12 November I will release a new photo page on my website about the cemetery and the German Bunkers at the Bernhardstein.
For now I leave you with the photo's. If a translation is necessary, please let me know. BTW: "Markircher Vogesenfront" means the front around Markirch (nowadays, Ste. Marie aux Mines).
Around 12 November I will release a new photo page on my website about the cemetery and the German Bunkers at the Bernhardstein.
For now I leave you with the photo's. If a translation is necessary, please let me know. BTW: "Markircher Vogesenfront" means the front around Markirch (nowadays, Ste. Marie aux Mines).
Pierre Grande Guerre
New member
Maybe superfluous, but I found this quote concerning 126 and 132 Regiments in Hans Peter Tombi's interesting pdf-document, "Deutsche Divisionen im Elzass".
Pierre Grande Guerre
New member
By coincidence I passed this old topic.
For more pictures of Markirch and the German bunkers of the Bernhardstein, click to this topic for a concise description of the content and the link: http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3984&highlight=markirch .
For more pictures of Markirch and the German bunkers of the Bernhardstein, click to this topic for a concise description of the content and the link: http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3984&highlight=markirch .
Wyliecoyote
New member
More bits to the mystery, has anyone ever figured out what Armee Korps for this Brigade? The below photo is dated on the reverse as 12 August 1916. Only the Btln. dogs are legible.
