Leib-Hussar Rgt 2 Schirmmütze

W

weirdpyramid

New member
I am NO pro when it comes to cloth hats but this looks good to me, missing Totenkopf but still pretty rare Schirmmütze.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Schirmmutze-/280736076010?pt=Militaria&hash=item415d2c90ea#ht_500wt_1173" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Use caution. These are popping up two or three a year on de-bay. They are original caps for something, but not 2LHR2. The give-away is the fuzzy piping. In fact, you can see where the Reich's Kokarde has been moved up.
 
That's the problem. Its not a fake. Its an original hat of some sort being missrepresented as 2LHR2. Just use extreme caution. Ask for lots of close-ups.
 
same seller, completed listing....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280732791036#ht_500wt_1240" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
The band appears to be wool, rather than the correct velvet for an officer. Also, where would one find the correct totenkopf badge for a decent price? Seems all the totenkopfs out there are of the Third Reich variety, with insane prices. I believe that if you buy a Allegemeine SS, or Waffen -SS cap sans insignia, you are looking at $1,000 plus for the eagle & skull!!! That's just nuts.
 
horseguards said:
Also, where would one find the correct totenkopf badge for a decent price?
Click to expand...

I could come up with one from my own collection, as I already have one. :wink:

Chip
 
horseguards said:
Seems all the totenkopfs out there are of the Third Reich variety, with insane prices. I believe that if you buy a Allegemeine SS, or Waffen -SS cap sans insignia, you are looking at $1,000 plus for the eagle & skull!!! That's just nuts.
Click to expand...

According to my knowledge these particular Totenkopf's for Leib-Hussar Rgt 1 and 2 Schirmmütze come in a number of different patterns. All patterns being fundamentally the same, skull and crossbones but the differences being subtle details in the design of the eyes/bones and also in metal substance. Imperial and also TR patterns being normally unmarked but with exceptions after the RZM/SS took over production. You won't need a eagle for this cap but definitely the skull. As far as I know many different examples will do, as long as it is unmarked, has no jaw to the design and isn't made from aluminum. Look at period photos, credible reference books and online examples back by collectors with experience. There are differences if one looks hard enough. These skulls drive me crazy! One of the biggest "grey" areas I have found in the Imperial/SS collecting world with the exception of Orders and EK's.
 
So, I have tried playing "devil's advocate" here or put myself in the shoes of the seller of this auction.

Now the seller has given a very "safe" description of the item, possibly clearing himself from misrepresenting the item, only stated the obvious like, type of hat and colors of the hat. The seller also offers a "no return" policy, which I don't like at all but ebay also protects the buyer in almost ALL cases even ones regarding a "no return" policy. Some sellers also just don't like dealing with returns, especially non-business Ebay sellers and this seller has good feedback but not a lot of feedback in general.

As for the pictures of the hat, they are not in focus and they leave a lot up to the imagination but I have seen far worse photos and we all cant be great photographers. The pictures to me show a original type of Schirmmutze and it is listed in Militaria/1871-1918/Deutsches Reich so the seller believes it to belong in that category. The pictures also show what I believe to be authentic worn visor, inner lining and officer's kokardes. As for the material of the cap its hard to say without touching it but it looks to be passable except for the piping which Tony said looks "fuzzy" and it does but the pictures are also fuzzy as a whole.

Now, if I was the seller and I knew that this cap was being misrepresented, for example the kokardes being switch around or the piping being re-sewn in with a cheap substitute wouldn't I then put in a better condition visor or at least throw some high quality repro skull on there to really complete the cap? or maybe that would be too much trouble.

Like I said before I am no expert with cloth caps and I have not one Schrimmutze in my collection but after saying all that, I don't think I will be bidding.
 
I emailed the seller to ask if the band was velvet, and he replied that it is. The auction has about 4 hours to go as I type, with the price over 500 euros.
 
Hello.

I guess I'm not the only one who noticed that the skull had left a mark on the fabric.



I notice that the mark was perfect for a skull that I had and wich I am 99% sure it is original. The holes for mounting prongs were also in the right place.



I finaly think that it is not so bad and for a correct price: the last on ebay was sold over $ 1,300!



Best regards

timp_be
 
Very nice timp_be!! I guess you are happy with the purchase. :D

How is the inside sweatband/liner? no signs of machine stitching? If you can I would love to see some pictures of the sweatband and inside fabric.

thanks for posting these pics! A lot of auctions disappear on Ebay and we never get to see them again.

chris
 
Here are the pictures. No traces of modern stitching. As the interior is quite "poor" I was afraid that this could be a troop cap modified in officer one but there are only holes for the officer cockade.

Best regards.

timp_be





 
Looks good to me but I am not a expert on these caps. I was interested in bidding on the cap but its great to see more pictures. I know that there was some concern about the white "fuzzy" piping but I really don't know.
 
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