Leibhusaren Peltzmutz / Busby

kaiserzeit

kaiserzeit

New member
Greetings All!

About time to stir the pot!

Here is a very fine looking busby:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6610244332

What do you think? The apparent provenance is compelling.

I don't know near enough about them and it is priced out of my league so I will be leaving it to wiser and wealthier men than myself to chase or not to chase, as appropriate.

Cheers,

Laurie
 
You will notice I am not bidding.
Click to expand...

Hi Tony,

You are one of our most experienced members so what you say goes a long way.

In your own subtle way are you saying that this piece is suspect?

What puts you off?

Cheers,

Laurie
 
Those 'scales and the feldzeichen would be enough to put me off. I dont know a lot about these either but to me it looks kind of crude all round.
 
Hi

I think it is a put together piece. Stay away. I had one in the early nineties
that was better put together. It was a parts busby.

Joe Semen
 
Thank you for pitching in.

I really must fine-tune my eyes.

The feldzeichen is pretty dog-eared but what else puts you off about it?

The chinscales are flattish but the photos I checked in a number of books show scales with only a little curve. Is it the missing scale plates that puts you off?

The wappen looks like it is well-seated. I am guessing that the bag is a replacement, though.

Not that I'll be putting any money into this piece but what is it that has it siding with the goats rather than the sheep?

Cheers,

Laurie
 
The metal ribbon above the skull is wrong. Chinscales are wrong for it. That is just eyeballing it. You would have to examine it hands on. See how skull is attached ,material , the chinscales , the bag and etc. But at first glance these are the red flags. The chinscales and the metal ribbon above the skull.

Joe Semen
 
Those scales are too chunky for me. They appear wider and flatter than I would expect. Everything looks a bit 'crammed in'. Not too subtle.
 
Hello Mike, Joe,

Thank you for your comments. I think I am beginning to clue in.

Mike, I take your point regarding the chinscales, they are heavier than I see in the textbooks.

Joe, I am not sure about the riband, what turns you off about it? Should it wrap more closely around the skull?

All the best,

Laurie
 
Laurie: the bandeau is not the correct shape for a 1st Lieb Husar. If you have Larcade's books look on page 68 of volume 2. There is also a good photo of the correct bandeau shape on page 135 of Reiner Herrmann's book.

Reservist1
 
I have the same Busby and I have to agree on the chinscales. The Bandau however I am not sure on. Mine has the same one and I know that most people have said it's incorrect but I have seen the same bandau in period photo's and at least one book.
 
I have also seen a period studio photo showing a LH busby with the same scroll... a photographer accessory??.. To the other criticisms I should add that the overall quality of this hat is rather poor (look at the picture of the inside). The label inside adds a little (I do not know what the last word means). Overall nothing exciting. Only the price deserves a superlative adjective...
 
911car said:
Only the price deserves a superlative adjective...
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Yes, based on your recent censoring, you'd best watch that potty-mouth of yours Bruno. :laughing4:

This looks nothing like an original Pelzmütze for the reasons stated. To address the bandeau issue, some period photos (rarely) as Bruno mentioned will show the wavy Line regt pattern Bandeau, which could be explained by a private-purchase Pelzemütze, as the officer's was the same as a Line regt. Only issued Leib Husaren Mannschaften Bandeau curved up and around the Totenkopf. This is the number-one way to ruin a perfectly good Busby to try to make more money, A bogus Totenkopf is hammered onto a good Line Pelzmütze. I have been after one of these since I was a kid. So it would have to be a text-book issued example, not something that I would have to explain and make excuses for. Pass. By the way, my Model 1895 Preußen Husaren Regt 10 Mannschaften Busby was a victim of this idiocy. http://www.kaisersbunker.com/dunkelblau/helmets/dbh34.htm Some moron stuck a F-A-K-E skull on it at one time and I have to live with the holes on the front. :angry4: Fortunately, decent issued Pelzmütze are so rare, it is something that is easy to live with.

kaiserzeit said:
Hi Tony, You are one of our most experienced members so what you say goes a long way.
Click to expand...
Thanks Laurie but that is just greed on my part. I want want want. :-#
 
Ok, I will put mine up for flames but the busby itself seems perfect and the chinscales are correct. The bandau is in question but like I have said, I have seen the same exact busby in books and photo's. Do not hold back. If it is wrong, then I would like to know that.

busby1.jpg


busby2.jpg


busby4.jpg


All the fittings are correct on the inside and the shell is bamboo made inside.

I have shown this to many people and they say it's correct except for the bandau maybe but no one is shure.

Maybe, and I hope, this is one of those things we learn that no one knew. If not, I still will go to work tomorrow.

Paul
 
Thank you, All!

R1: Thanks, I'm taking Herrmann and Larcade out for a look this evening.

Tony: Now I'm getting the picture! I think I found just the piece for you:

http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1151

Paul: Thank you for being brave, that is a beautiful piece!

Cheers,

Laurie
 
Oh yea, Tony.... I did the braids myself so I know they are wrong. Sometime I will figure out the braids and how they should be. It came with them just all undun.
 
After march 4 1858 the fur on the colback was applied turning around it from left to right in the hairs way (? "sens du poil" sorry for my english). On this one the fur seems, as well as I can see..., to be applied vertically... if so: not good!
 
Thank you timp_be, you have made a most interesting contribution. Something which makes very good sense but I would never have thought of.

"sens du poil" is very close to the English expression: the "grain of the fur," or the"lie of the fur."

Cheers,

Laurie
 
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