Listen to your helmets....They may talk gently to you...

argonne

argonne

Well-known member
Hi Gents,

Saxon EM helmets have always been something particular for me in the spikes world. I am not able to tell why. Maybe because of their own kind of markings...Or simply because they are looking great with the big saxony star....
M15 haubes are by far not my favorites, but for Saxony, I can make an exception.

This one hung a long time on a wall above a fire place, as a french veteran bring back.
Unfortunately, no regimental markings on the neckguard, no dates, no maker mark, at the first sight, absolutely nothing....











But at second sight, it seems that something has been written on the visor, for a very very long time....



A little bit patience work with photo paint...



And again some time to understand and finally check this hand written mark:



Then, all was clear and easy to start some research in the Verlust-Liste of the german army 1914-18:

Moritz THIEME I was in the saxon 6/RJR245 and was first missed during the Somme battle, September 1916 (page 15362 of the Verlustliste):

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/4804788" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



One page before (15361), one can see the number of the unit: RJR245

http://files.genealogy.net/verlustlisten/15361.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another information on page 15984 (1.11.1916) informs us, that Moritz THIEME I is not longer missed but has been lightly wounded and then taken prisoner:

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/4983071" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Then, to verify all those informations, I took a look on the red cross site about german prisoners of WWI and yes, I found this guy again!



Moritz Thieme has been lightly wounded through bullet on the right side on the 15.9.16. He now is in the center hospital of Lannion:



Then another information. THIEME was during 1917 prisoner in Sennecey (near Dijon) and during 1918 in Montmorot (Jura mountain).
This is the eighth name from the top with same repertoration number 667.



So glad that this helmet could tell me the story of its wearer, 100 years later \:D/

Philippe
:D
 
Hi Philippe,

Very well done! =D> So interesting to see all that info on the wearer. I would love to identify the wearer of one of my Pickelhaubes too.....

Regards,

Lars
 
Uh i have never found as mutch information as you did with your helmet
So it is no longer a 'normal ' saxon helmet but a fine piece of history you got there
I find it so wonderfull that you found so mutch information on it

Nice one on that history digging

Jonas
 
Lars13 said:
I would love to identify the wearer of one of my Pickelhaubes too.....
Click to expand...

Lars,

If you have a good pict of the name, I could try to help...
I am now trying to collect only such haubes with wearers name. So the collection is not so anonymous.
The same way, I could identify the destiny of wearers which name was written in other helmets I own. (an Offizierstellvertreter of the RJR76, a Landwehr man of the RJR109 and a reservist of the RJR90. All of them were taken prisonner and their helmets changed hands at this moment, as war trophy...

Philippe
:D
 
Thank you guys!

This way of collecting is simply fascinating me. You are purchasing more than the helmet. It´s like touching the soul of the wearer through his helmet.

This one was belonging to Offizierstellvertreter Karl Steinel, 8/RJR76:











First R76, then RJR76 II B:





Same kind of difficult and patient job to correctly decypher the name and the company number which are marked in the front visor: STEINEL 8/76





In the Verlust-Liste, this guy is immediatly tracked on page 1828, right column, 8. Kompanie, 37th name from the top (please use the zoom). He is mentioned as seriously wounded during the battle of the Oise, September 1914:

http://files.genealogy.net/verlustlisten/01828.jpeg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



At page 4843, a second information that says that STEINEL died on 9.10.14 in captivity
http://files.genealogy.net/verlustlisten/04843.jpeg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Another mention of STEINEL on the web mentioning where he is buried (in ROUEN, Normandy):



[/quote]

And a pict of his grave, taken by a friend of mine:



And the results after consulting the Red Cross site on the web. STEINEL died because of a serious chest wound that could not heal:












Philippe
:)
 
Well, you inspired me. I went looking with a bright light at the Saxon here. It is a well marked 134R, 133RR 1Bat, 54, XIX. It has a shrapnel wound, and Brian re-stitched it and otherwise fixed it up for me (photos elsewhere on this forum)

I pulled back the liner and lo and behold, a penciled name. How you decifer these is beyond me as it is very light. Appears to be

Pfoiholz

The P is suspect. f is strong. o and i are suspect. h is strong. lz fairly strong.

But what to do? I simply do not have the tools or skill to pursue this starting with nailing down the name.
 
ebeeby said:
Well, you inspired me. I went looking with a bright light at the Saxon here. It is a well marked 134R, 133RR 1Bat, 54, XIX. It has a shrapnel wound, and Brian re-stitched it and otherwise fixed it up for me (photos elsewhere on this forum)
Click to expand...

If you could post a good pict of the name, maybe I could help :)

Philippe
:D
 
Concerning the RJR76 helmet, the provenance was a very good help to prove all those informations.
I got it straight from the family of the french medic (médecin aide major AUDOUARD) who was in the 16.RI. This french unit was exactly on the other side of the RJR76 during those September days in the Oise, near Béthancourt-Ribécourt, where a full german field hospital fall in the hands of the french army. Dr AUDOUARD gave probably the first help to Karl STEINEL and brought his helmet back at this moment.

Philippe
:)
 
argonne said:
ebeeby said:
Well, you inspired me. I went looking with a bright light at the Saxon here. It is a well marked 134R, 133RR 1Bat, 54, XIX. It has a shrapnel wound, and Brian re-stitched it and otherwise fixed it up for me (photos elsewhere on this forum)
Click to expand...

If you could post a good pict of the name, maybe I could help :)

Philippe
:D
Click to expand...
That's the rub - trying to get something on camera that has to be viewed from several angles under certain light , to be seen at all....
 
Hi Philippe,

Very very nice!

I'll take you up on your kind offer, below the name inscribed in my LIR 53 Pickelhaube http://www.pickelhaubes.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9898

28041333344_340a6f26b3_b.jpg

Before processing

28041338804_ef57d7cd5b_b.jpg

After processing

I haven't managed to find anything myself ](*,)

Thanks,

Lars
 
Struggling a bit to get the pictures showing correctly.....have we lost the possibility to upload pictures directly to the Pickelhaubes server rather than through a link to a photo host website?

Update: managed after finally finding a direct link to the picture on Flickr :D
 
Lars,

To me, the name is clearly SUMMERSKI.
I checked all the names which are mentioned in the Verlust-Liste for the LIR53 for the period 8.1914 till 12.1916, because after December 1916, there were no units more mentioned (strategic reasons).

Here is the list. The first 19 pages are all concerning the LIR53.

http://des.genealogy.net/search/index?value03=Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment+53&sort=lastname&max=50&order=asc&value02=preu%C3%9Fen&page=&search=Suchen&listId=eingabe-verlustlisten&pageValue01=&offset=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unfortunately, there is no guy with this name mentioned. Sometimes we must admit that wearers of our helmets have not be mentioned because never wounded, not KIA, missed or taken prisoner.
Another possibility could be that this guy is mentioned after December 1916 and it is then impossible to check his unit...
However I checked that too, there is no SUMMERSKI at all in the whole listing of the Verlust-Listen. So this guy had probably the luck to survive the war without any wounds...

Philippe
:)
 
Philippe,

Thank you for your help :D As far as I could see his name starts with an "L", but didn't find that in the Verlustlisten either.

Oh well, I guess we can't all have several helmets with traceable owners (insert smiley for jealous here).

Lars
 
Lars13 said:
Philippe,

Thank you for your help :D As far as I could see his name starts with an "L", but didn't find that in the Verlustlisten either.

Oh well, I guess we can't all have several helmets with traceable owners (insert smiley for jealous here).

Lars
Click to expand...

Lars,

Definitly an "S" as start letter :wink:
However, to be sure, I even tried with LUMMERSKI...No hits at all....

I know, this oft a very difficult job. My I/RJR90 (I´ll show it as soon as I have a little bit more time) has a perfect written owner name (HAHN). But his name is very common in Germany and I found 3 who were in the I/RJR90 (1,3 and 4 Kompagnie). However, I am pretty sure to know which of them was the wearer. In the big majority, complete helmets were brought back as trophy when the soldiers were taken prisoner. One of the three was KIA August 1915 on the eastern front, the second was KIA October 1915 in northern France and the third HAHN was seriously wounded at Verdun, May 1916 and then taken prisoner. This last is my favorite...Only a small intuition...But that´s very important too with those difficult research.


Philippe :wink:
 
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