Little eagle on your plate...
- Thread starter MadMax13
- Start date
Not wanting to stur up any problems, I would like to point out that the use of chicken to discribe The Prussian Eagle, is offensive to a segment of collectors of Imperial German artifacts. Sadly, we lost one member because of the common usage of this term. It would be a good thing if we could refrain from using it in respect to the men who wore the Pickelhaube.
Best
Gus
Best
Gus
Steve,
This is not politically correct, it is a matter of showing respect for the people who wore these helmets and their children's children. We lost the input of a very knowledgeable German collector because of the common usage of this term. My thought was that this is a prominent collector's forum, and we should be educated. I realize there are collectors who only want something shiny, and do not care for the history behind the artifact, but I did not think that there would be many of that group here.
I also realize that the American eagle is also referred to as a chicken at times, does this offend Americans who have served? I do not know, but I doubt that it is considered to be a term used by a respectful historian.
If I am thought to be wrong by most of the members, then I will drop it, otherwise, I thought this to be the proper forum to instill a respectful manner to this field of collecting.
Best
Gus
This is not politically correct, it is a matter of showing respect for the people who wore these helmets and their children's children. We lost the input of a very knowledgeable German collector because of the common usage of this term. My thought was that this is a prominent collector's forum, and we should be educated. I realize there are collectors who only want something shiny, and do not care for the history behind the artifact, but I did not think that there would be many of that group here.
I also realize that the American eagle is also referred to as a chicken at times, does this offend Americans who have served? I do not know, but I doubt that it is considered to be a term used by a respectful historian.
If I am thought to be wrong by most of the members, then I will drop it, otherwise, I thought this to be the proper forum to instill a respectful manner to this field of collecting.
Best
Gus
Lost Skeleton
Well-known member
Having been personally guilty of this egregious slight against the symbol of a dead empire (and, Gus, so have you), perhaps the time has come to set things right once and for all. Perhaps, the conscientious moderator corps can sharpen their censorial scissors and sanitize the following 59 topics in which "chicken" appears:
Ben Franklin lobbied for the Turkey to be the National Emblem of the U.S., and France has its Rooster (Coq). I'm all for being respectful, but to cite the loss of one member, whom I recall was a confirmed firebrand, to criticize the valuable contributions of others seems both obsequious and hypocritical under the circumstances.
Simply my opinion.
Chas
Ben Franklin lobbied for the Turkey to be the National Emblem of the U.S., and France has its Rooster (Coq). I'm all for being respectful, but to cite the loss of one member, whom I recall was a confirmed firebrand, to criticize the valuable contributions of others seems both obsequious and hypocritical under the circumstances.
Simply my opinion.
Chas
Chas,
Yours is a valuable opinion, and may be the majority, and you are right, I too have used that term and was fairly well took to task for it.
It is a cutesy term that has little real value in the collectiong community, and I had not noticed its use since the dispute with Swen, and thought it may have been dropped.
I will have to admit that this seems to be a non-issue to most, but I thought it deserved a discussion.
Best wishes
Gus
Yours is a valuable opinion, and may be the majority, and you are right, I too have used that term and was fairly well took to task for it.
It is a cutesy term that has little real value in the collectiong community, and I had not noticed its use since the dispute with Swen, and thought it may have been dropped.
I will have to admit that this seems to be a non-issue to most, but I thought it deserved a discussion.
Best wishes
Gus
Soooo..... How bout them Yankee's.......
No, All joking aside guy's, Totally understand both sides, But I will refrain from using it, because it does sound derogatory when you think about it.
My original post was met to be as Gus said "cutesy", and meaning to have no disrespect for the brave men who fought under it.
No, All joking aside guy's, Totally understand both sides, But I will refrain from using it, because it does sound derogatory when you think about it.
My original post was met to be as Gus said "cutesy", and meaning to have no disrespect for the brave men who fought under it.
Lost Skeleton
Well-known member
I wonder if it would have been possible to mollify "Swen" by acquainting him with the "Ruptured Duck." To my knowledge, no honorably discharged American veteran has ever taken exception to its usage.
I further wonder how Swen felt about the Hakenkreuz, and whether he would have been offended by somebody calling it a "pinwheel?"
These days, I refer to the bird as either eagle or Adler, but, as far as I'm concerned, SUUM CUIQUE.
I further wonder how Swen felt about the Hakenkreuz, and whether he would have been offended by somebody calling it a "pinwheel?"
These days, I refer to the bird as either eagle or Adler, but, as far as I'm concerned, SUUM CUIQUE.
spikeymikey
Member
Hmmm.......Y'all stupid!
...just kidding.
...just kidding.
Lost Skeleton
Well-known member
Oh, Mike, I can't stop laughing!
At least countries like Germany and the USA get magestic eagles. Up here, we got a rodent. Yaaaay us.......
Lost Skeleton
Well-known member
…not to mention this iconographic angulate:
spikeymikey
Member
I put this whole thing to Mr. Hilaire over dinner last night. He's the male half of the German couple who are neighbours of my wifes parents. I asked if he felt that this was an insult and he just laughed. Of course I explained that it was 'just a joke' and he seemed to understand? So I think it's no problem really. Mind you, as we were leaving and I bent down to stroke their pet Dachshund he gave me a pretty nasty 'atomic wedgie', explaining that it was 'just eine joke', so I'm not entirely sure? :?
Anway, I don't recall 'Swen' who got his beak put out of joint over this? It's so easy to ruffle people's feathers these days. I hope he comes back.
Maybe he'll check-in sometime?
Anway, I don't recall 'Swen' who got his beak put out of joint over this? It's so easy to ruffle people's feathers these days. I hope he comes back.
Maybe he'll check-in sometime?
argonne
Well-known member
Mein Gott, mon Dieu, to my opinion, it´s not more than a storm in a glass of water...
I only can shake my head... We have here a very cool forum with a high knowledge level and very smart members and we do not need any censorship because of such an innocent comparison. I cannot understand that one member has stopped his contribution because of the use of that simple word. Maybe he had a bad day... For me, it is not a great loss and I am sure he will soon be back! Even a child would understand it is not a lack of respect to give a gentle nickname to the prussian eagle. How about the Garde helmets with the words "SUUM CUIQUE" on their wappen??? This has always been the slogan of the Orden of the black eagle in Brandenburg, and the german translation is: "jedem das seine". This slogan was also the banner over the entrance gate of the concentration camp of Buchenwald...Is that a reason not to collect those helmets? The fact of collecting such history artefacts is the EVIDENT PROOF of our great respect for the generations who suffered and died.
A little portion of sane irony, humour, tolerance and coolness always makes the communication between human beings much easier.Even in the WWI trenches this was the best way to survive the big nightmare. But some people unfortunately do not have this helpful ability... It´s also my convinction that if more people in the past would have possessed more humour and irony, and the ability to understand it, a lot of wars would have not begun... And I also know, because myself even a "half german" living in this beautiful country with my german family, that germans particularly love sometimes to "search the hair in the soup", even if there is no hair in it...And just because I even am a "half frog eater", I can laugh about it!!!
I am the son of a french father who fought in WWII side an side with american GIs and of a german mother who was born and lived in Nazi Germany. My father always told me, with humour and tolerance, I´ll always stay on the right side of life. I fully agree with that. Don´t worry because of such irrelevant things, be happy and proud to collect!! That´s the REAL tribute to our fathers and grandfathers!
By the way, the animals I prefer, are the rooster and the chicken!
Philippe :salute:
_________________
http://www.dekokopf.de/
I only can shake my head... We have here a very cool forum with a high knowledge level and very smart members and we do not need any censorship because of such an innocent comparison. I cannot understand that one member has stopped his contribution because of the use of that simple word. Maybe he had a bad day... For me, it is not a great loss and I am sure he will soon be back! Even a child would understand it is not a lack of respect to give a gentle nickname to the prussian eagle. How about the Garde helmets with the words "SUUM CUIQUE" on their wappen??? This has always been the slogan of the Orden of the black eagle in Brandenburg, and the german translation is: "jedem das seine". This slogan was also the banner over the entrance gate of the concentration camp of Buchenwald...Is that a reason not to collect those helmets? The fact of collecting such history artefacts is the EVIDENT PROOF of our great respect for the generations who suffered and died.
A little portion of sane irony, humour, tolerance and coolness always makes the communication between human beings much easier.Even in the WWI trenches this was the best way to survive the big nightmare. But some people unfortunately do not have this helpful ability... It´s also my convinction that if more people in the past would have possessed more humour and irony, and the ability to understand it, a lot of wars would have not begun... And I also know, because myself even a "half german" living in this beautiful country with my german family, that germans particularly love sometimes to "search the hair in the soup", even if there is no hair in it...And just because I even am a "half frog eater", I can laugh about it!!!
I am the son of a french father who fought in WWII side an side with american GIs and of a german mother who was born and lived in Nazi Germany. My father always told me, with humour and tolerance, I´ll always stay on the right side of life. I fully agree with that. Don´t worry because of such irrelevant things, be happy and proud to collect!! That´s the REAL tribute to our fathers and grandfathers!
By the way, the animals I prefer, are the rooster and the chicken!
Philippe :salute:
_________________
http://www.dekokopf.de/
joerookery
Well-known member
Actually the artist that drew those cartoons goes to our church! He donated two color drawings to our silent auction last year and I bought them for Christmas presents for our boys. Really amazing and talented man.
Well spoken Philippe! We have a great forum, good humour and tolerance. I have met Gus in person a couple of times and have enjoyed his humour and knowledge of collecting. In fact secretly, I believe that he yearns to be paid in lovely multi coloured money and become a Canuk! Regarding this topic, I do not for one moment think that he was advocating censorship, just expressing a concern that we might offend some collectors and lose members. I believe however, that your response and others has cleared this up so.....no issue. Lets get on with our hunt for these lovely pointy hats! In addition, it does suck to have the beaver as one's national symbol. Rocky was a flying squirrel and Boris and Natasha were my favourite Cold War spies. Brian
Hey Guys,
This has turned into a great discussion, and I will have to admit that this is a non-issue for most people in the collecting field.
One of the ain reasns for having such a forum is to allow discussions of this nature, and Chas may be right, the loss of a confirmed firebrand may be of little importance.
As to the beaver, in our part of the country, the term beaver is used to discribe something much nicer that a rodent, and I know that if the right Canadian Beavers were dressed in a Maple Leaf T shirt, there would be a stampeed of guys from the south exchangind ugly green bills for pretty ones.
Best
Gus
This has turned into a great discussion, and I will have to admit that this is a non-issue for most people in the collecting field.
One of the ain reasns for having such a forum is to allow discussions of this nature, and Chas may be right, the loss of a confirmed firebrand may be of little importance.
As to the beaver, in our part of the country, the term beaver is used to discribe something much nicer that a rodent, and I know that if the right Canadian Beavers were dressed in a Maple Leaf T shirt, there would be a stampeed of guys from the south exchangind ugly green bills for pretty ones.
Best
Gus
poniatowski
Well-known member
Here's one I designed for our family members to use (and other interested folks), referenced from the family crest and a variation on the Polish Eagle, which I don't personally like a lot... but still feel pride when I see it; figure that one out!
So, a Facebook friend copied it onto his page and one of his friends in England says, "Who ran over the vulture?"
OOOOO...... Slow burn on my part... Went on this fellow's page and found him to be a sports fan whose favorite team won a trophy (don't ask me who or what sport, just saw the trophy), so I replied, "Yes, heraldic rendering does flatten birds out, but I guess it's no more silly than a trophy with a Burger King crown on it. Ahhhh revenge.
So I don't know where I'm going with this, but what about the front plate?
Ron