M15 Artillery.

S

spikeymikey

Member
6624315541. I thought this looked pretty decent. Not sure if the Kugel is original to the helmet but it seems to fit pretty good despite the obvious colour difference. A pity there's no markings to confirm that it's always had a ball on top.
 
looks good to me as well. As far as the ball top goes, I have had a few over the years with slightly differant shades then the rest of the helmet. I ams ure they where all add ons.

Like you said tough to prove it was originally a Artillary helmet without markings.

I like the looks of this one!

James
 
Mikey,
There was an entire time frame where grey helmets were used without spikes. I'm still working details but how often do you see a collection with a helmet with no spike? Seldom. Just a thought.
nospikegroup.jpg
 
Very true, Joe. It should not really be such an issue to collector's I guess, the fact that the spike colour does not always match up. I'm pretty sure it was not too much of a priority to the soldiers back then. Did they keep the detached spike or ball-top in their kit bag or did some never get issued with one? I have two M15's with replaced spikes. A French dealer on a fault-finding mission, once made a real production out of this aspect along with several other points, all of which I was aware, when he visited me once. I also heard that some makers could end up with metalwork not quite matching up because of supply problems, having to get fittings from different steelworks etc.? This sounds plausible to me. Mr. Timp-be mentioned this once also.

James, it sounds like you may shell out on this one? Have you seen the metal ersatz Artillery also listed? It looks reasonable too but the guy only posts one picture of it so far.
 
havenot2.jpg

Did they keep the detached spike or ball-top in their kit bag or did some never get issued with one?
Click to expand...

A total unsubstantiated guess here but I feel they were not issued to all. I have seen too many aufmarsch photos with no spike. Why would they do a studio pose with no spike if they had one in their pocket? :happy11:
 
Hi Joe,

It seems that the arty is nt marked, is it possible that the it was one of he infantry haubes and well, its nt difficultto have an arty ball spike mounted and then sold as an arty haube?
Its nt marked after all....


Cheers,
Bambang
 
From that same Fa45 group. It certainly looks like they guy with the filz has no ball either. There is also a mixture of chinscales and straps.
group1_3.jpg
 
George,

Is that arty pc or the guard detail pc dated ?
Click to expand...

Nothing on the back of the guard card but the FA45 is odd. It is mailed on 21.10.1917!! There is another date on the back that looks like 1915 but it is written in that crappy blue pencil stuff. I think it is 1915 but I cannot explain why it was not mailed for 2 years. It is also mailed from the Arty training grounds at Lockstedter in Holstein.
 
I have to check out my pc's, I know I have at least one other without the spike and check for a date. I aquired this one recently but it is undated.


Anybody else have pics of soldaten that are spikeless, dated or undated?[/img]
 
Hi Joe,

Those are very interesting pics, am I right to understand that those guys were no longer issued spikes at all when they were given the haubes?
I mean, looking at George's pic, I think thats a studio portrait and like you said, why removed the spike if he had it.

What I dont understand is, why went all the trouble to make the spike base if no spike were to be issued in the first place?
 
A total unsubstantiated guess here but I feel they were not issued to all.
Click to expand...

I don't know Bambang. As to why the helmet ... that was the only helmet they had. I guess you could expect to get a spike if you didn't already have one.
 
Still digging around for better info, but sometime during the war, a directive was issued to remove the spikes, so that the soldiers would become less easily identified than if the helmet sported a spike. What time frame or or what reference this came from I am unsure.

:scratch:
 
Apparently the date troops were ordered to remove their spikes was in September, 1915. Here is another pc photo, notice the soldaten guarding the French POW's have their spikes removed.


 
This is all interesting stuff. Thanks Joe and Wylie for these pictures and information. What started out as a rather mundane thread is turning out to be a 'nice little learner'.
 
What is interesting to me about the photo of the guards is that there appears to be no spike base sticking up from the helmet covers on any of the guards. Could they all have been issued pre-M15 helmets with the non removeable spikes, and had to remove the brass rivets/support plate/spike completely from the helmet shells?

My 2 cents as far as to whether the helmets were issued with or without spikes is that they were issued with spikes and were removed by the individual soldiers as per orders / directives. There was a specific reason why the M15 was designed with the removable spike after all, and it would seem a huge problem for the supply folks to have to store spikes. Just a gut feeling.

Geo
 
What is interesting to me about the photo of the guards is that there appears to be no spike base sticking up from the helmet covers on any of the guards.
Click to expand...

George I stole your scan and blew it up. If you mind I'll remove it but I see what you kmean about the spike base. The left guy in picture 3 looks like he has an empty spike cover flopping about.
spikeless2zr_1.jpg

spikeless2zr_2.jpg

spikeless2zr_3.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top