M15 Bluse markings - XIII Korps, Reichswehr Reiter Regiment?

flasheart

Member
Gents,

Can anyone help with these markings on an EM M15 bluse with a litzen collar (missing the litzen).

I don't have the bluse in my hands yet but the unit markings are a puzzle. It appears to be:

BA XIII 1918

RRWS

or

RRAS

or

RRW6

1 Esk


So, a Wurttemberg unit with sub-units designated as squadrons, not sure which one. Hopefully it will become clearer when I can see the markings up close and figure out the litzen pattern that is supposed to be there.

Mike

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HGLnEnnoWozCFnquxlrBISj1RrQlpUN3030.jpg

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This last photo is a different item and is nothing to do with the bluse; I just wanted to show the marking. Train Abteilung 6 M15 Mantel with outstanding markings.

8660_3.jpg
 
OK,

I have the bluse in my hands now and a few questions for the uniform guys. Based on the stamps, my theory is that this was wartime-issued to an NCO in XIII Armee Korps (Wurttemberg), then used in the post-war Reichswehr in 1 Eskadron, Reiter Regiment Nr 18 (1st Squadron, 18th Cavalry Regiment).

The bluse appears to be a Mannschaft issued pattern, but the collar is a stand and fall type with a stiffener, resedagrun facing cloth, darker areas where the litzen protected the collar from fading, and pin-marks where the NCO insignia have been inserted on each side. Is this an issue NCO collar, a wartime modification or a Reichswehr modification?
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The markings are a little clearer now that I have it and have been able to inspect with UV light. The markings appear to be:

BA XIII 1917
PC172260.jpg

RR 18 (at first I thought 5 or 6 but under UV, the lines connect to make an '8')

PC172266.jpg

1921 (?? in the rectangluar box)
PC172267.jpg

3C (?)
HGLnEnnoWozCFnquxlrBISj1RrQlpUN3030.jpg

III

1 Esk

IIII


Plus size markings and numerous Berlin costume house markings.

If my interpretation of the markings is correct, it does make sense. Wartime service with XIII Armee Korps (Wurttemberg) then post-war service with the Reichswehr in RR 18 (Reiter Regiment 18, Wurttemberg). 1 Esk (1st Eskadron or 1st Squadron) carried on the traditions of the Dragoner-Regiments Königin Olga (1. Württ.) Nr.25 and Ulanen-Regiments König Wilhelm I (2. Württ.) Nr.20. This fine group of fellows is 1 Esk, RR 18, Reichswehr circa 1922.

erste_eskadron.jpg




And Otto is just dog-tired after a hard day on the guns.
PC162256.jpg


Mike
 
Hi.


The marking from what I can read, R R 18, If read them right. May interpert Reserve Infantry Regiment 18 . from the 13th Corp 1918 Or Recuiting depot of the infantry regiment. You have to look and see what regiment was attached to the 13th corps.The other stampng who knows. I know on earlier tunics in the German army mark thier tunics 1 to 5 for issue purposes. ie 1 being for parade dress then III being for field issue and wear only and etc. Good chance it may have been reissue during the early weimar period, And the other marking for some regiment for that period. I hope That helps a bit.


Thanks Joe Semen
 
Gents,

The following response is from Jurgen at the Kavallerie-Regiment 18 website. My very poor translation (from an online translator) follows. If you can help to improve the translation, please feel free:


Hallo Mike,
leider spreche und schreibe ich wenig Englisch! Aber vielleicht findest Du jemanden, der dir das Deutsch geschriebene übersetzen kann. Die Bluse M1915 ist ok, sie hat keinen Umlegekragen wie ein Mannschafts-Rock sondern einen Stehkragen (offiziersmäßig). Haben die Taschenklappen sichtbare Knöpfe? Wenn es verdeckte Knöpfe sind, ist die Jacke offiziersmäßig! Kronenknöpfe außen sichtbar - Mannschaft! Könnte aber auch sein - Wachtmeister, der im Lauf des Krieges zum Offizier befördert wurde. Die dunklen Stellen am Kragen - klar da waren Offiziers-Kragenspiegel (Patten 7,5 x 4,5 cm) drauf! Könnte sein im 1. WK - Dragoner 25, die hatten Patten Meine aber eher Reichswehr - die hatten dann immer welche drauf, dann aber auch Offizier. Die Löcher (pin-marks) sind am Kragen?! Dann wären es die Löcher für die Seganten-Knöpfe. Auf den Ärmel, dann für die Armscheiben mit der Regiments-Nummer (1919/20).

Hi Mike,
your interpretation to this Uniform scems correct to me. In the WK 1 the Dragoner 25 wore the bluse with litzen (Patten) couacs.
It could be interpreted that the bluse through the war became to be an officer bluse after laving been a mannschaft pattern before (officer litzen - patten)

My interpretation of the German text:
Hello Mike, unfortunately I speak and write little English! But perhaps you can find someone to translate the German writing. The blouse M1915 is ok, it has separate no Umlegekragen (??) as well as a Mannschaft Rock a state collar (officer modified). Do the pockets have visible buttons? If they are covered buttons, the jacket is officer modified! If the crown buttons are visible, Mannschaft! However, it could also be a sergeant who was commissioned during the course of the war to the officer. The dark places at the collar – clearly there were officer Kragenspiegel (stalemates 7.5 x 4.5 cm)! It could have been Dragoner 25 as they had litzen. However it is possibly Reichswehr – which had them always which thereon, then however also officer. Are the holes (pin marks) at the collar?! Then the holes would be it for the Sergeant-knopfe. On the sleeve, then for the arm disks with the regiment-number (1919/20).



In response to Jurgens questions, :

There are definitely Sergeants-knopfe pin marks on each side of the collar, and enough wear/fading to identify Sergeant-knopfe rather than Gerfreiter-knopfe.

There is no evidence that I could find on the upper sleeve of a regimental number having been pinned there.

Another point of significance is that the turnback cuffs have been stitched closed at the top, perhaps an NCO modification?

Mike
 
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