M1887 spike. Only two vent holes? Or five???

Tony without Kaiser

Tony without Kaiser

Departed
Staff member
I have received an e-mail from a collector in Germany, who states that the Model 1887 Pickelhaube had five vent holes in the spike neck.

Larcade, J. L. (1983) Casques a pointe Vol1 Jacques Grancher, Paris p.28 states that the five vent holes were part of AKO Mai 25 1895. Larcade states on p. 19 that the M1887 shown with five vent holes, was modified 1895 with the new spike. I always thought this was the case, that spike necks up to 1895 only had 2 vent holes.

However, Reiner, H. (2000) Militaerische kopfbedeckungen der kaiserzeit Motorbuch Verlag, Stuttgart p. 39 states that the M1887 spike neck had five vent holes. He quotes as his source "die Preußischen Infanteriehelme von. F Rascher in Archiv für Waffen-und Uniformkunde from 1. July 1918.

Does anyone have any clarification on this? Does anyone have a copy of 3 March AKO 1887 describing the M1887 helmet? Does anyone have a good period close up on an M1887? On all mine I cannot see the spike neck.

It could explain why I have never seen a M95 pattern spike with only two vent holes, and trust me, I have been looking.
 
Hi Tony

I have two of 1887 models, and each with 1895 type spike (5 holes).


1867/1871 type spike is 2 holes, but with perlring

That's all....
 
monfort said:
I have two of 1887 models, and each with 1895 type spike (5 holes)
Click to expand...

Hello Eric, this is what I am wondering. What we refer to as the "M1895" spike with five holes, might actually be a M1887 spike.

I am leaning towards this more, as I have never seen an issued spike with no Perlring, with only two holes.
 
Well, once in a awhile is it good to be proven completely wrong. And I was. :-#

Mostly relying on Larcade, J. L. (1983) Casques a pointe Vol1 Jacques Grancher, Paris, I have believed for many years that the M1887 spike had only two ventilation holes, and that the five (or six) ventilation holes did not appear until the Model 1895.

Herr Volger Simons in Berlin was kind enough to send me a copy of his excellent article Simons, V. Der preußische Mannschaftshelm Modell 1887. Zeitschrift für Heereskunde Nr. 424 April/Juni 2007.

In the article is photographed a M1887 (picture 2 in the text S. 69) from the Armeemuseum Ingolstadt. The helmet was entered into the inventory of the Armeemuseum Ingolstadt in 1891! And yes, I was floored to see five vent holes!

Better still, in the Allerhöchsten Erlaß Infanterie S. 69 "Darmstadt, 22. October 1887" states clearly :"4) im Kranz der Helmspitze 5 - 6 Luftlöcher" (in the wreath/ring of the helmet point 5 - 6 vents)

Add to the fact I have seen a lot of M1887 for sale, in collections, and in references, and they have all had spike with five vent holes. The worst of it is, I have passed on several thinking that they had incorrect M1895 spikes.
Argghh!! :confused4: So as a result, I am still trying to find one.

So as far as I am concerned, that is conclusive. The five vent holes (or six apparently) occurred not in 1895, but in 1887. So, I have changed my reference page on the M1887accordingly.
 
joerookery said:
//another piece of conventional wisdom is refined! //
Click to expand...

Thanks Joe, I think sometimes that only myself, Eric, and Ed are interested in these older pattern helmets. I love them.

My next attack on conventional wisdom, is the popular belief that Unteroffizier mit Portepee only wore Eigentums-helm, and did not wear issued helmets with the "Unteroffizier mit Portepee" Kokarde. I say they did, but that is a different thread ja?
 
Tony & Kaiser said:
joerookery said:
//another piece of conventional wisdom is refined! //
Click to expand...

Thanks Joe, I think sometimes that only myself, Eric, and Ed are interested in these older pattern helmets. I love them.
Click to expand...

Hi Tony

First: congratulations for yout unquiry. nice to see that there are still collectors able to do that!

Secondly, "genuine" models 1887 are hard to find, mainly because (as you know, I know) they were later re issued with visor trim, with new chinscales,...Tony Cowan sold a nice Baden helmet some days ago. It had 2 VERTICAL holes in the front of the shell...???

Anyway, I don't see every morning this model.
 
monfort said:
// Tony Cowan sold a nice Baden helmet some days ago. It had 2 VERTICAL holes in the front of the shell...???//
Click to expand...

This one. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200170363947

Two vertical holes Eric? Under the Baden Wappen? T
 
Eric,
I see what you mean now. I don't know this for a fact but I wonder if this has something to do with the attachment of the star? I don't know.
 
Hi Joe

Sergio has a model 1887 Baden 109th for sale:


http://www.militaria-online.de/cgi-bin/showart.pl?art=151

Cocarde looks re painted.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top