M1915 Pickelhaube Cover

[simon505]

Can anyone tell me if the M1915 pickelhaube cover (without the section on the top to cover the spike) had card inserts instead of the hooks found on most?

I have a rare example of this type and instead of the common hooks it has a thin curved piece of card at the front and rear to tuck under the helmet's peaks.

It is DRP marked and has cloth numbers stitched to the front which are covered with an additional piece of cloth following a later field camoflauge directive. Camera is being fixed at the mo - otherwise I'd have shared a piccie.

All the best gentlemen, appreciate any info you have.

Many thanks,

Simon Cooper

 

[JohnM]

Hello Simon,

What you have is a Officer or Private Purchase helmet cover. This cover fit the helmet more snugly than the issued hook covers. Please bear in mind that there some repro's out there so if you have a blacklight you might want to give it a test.

John

 

[joerookery]

Simon,

It is DRP marked and has cloth numbers stitched to the front which are covered with an additional piece of cloth following a later field camoflauge directive.

I agree with John but I have never seen a covered private purchase.
Is it similar to these?

Article at http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/Uberzug.htm

If it is what I think it would be very rare. Is there a top? What number is on it? What color numbers?

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

What you have is a Officer or Private Purchase helmet cover. This cover fit the helmet more snugly than the issued hook covers.

I assume the "card" you are referring to is the section under the visors to secure it as John said. Simon, read the last paragraph on this page, there are some other unique features to the M15 officer's Überzug. >> http://www.kaisersbunker.com/pt/uberzug.htm

Unless you could see the hooks (or lack of) on the front visor in a photo, you would would not be able to tell an Officer's M15 from an issued M15.

I have one, but it is 'on something' that is my 01 Dec update which will be posted on this forum as well as my web site. :-#

The cloth to cover the numbers is very interesting, but not a surprise, as the first M15 covers came with numbers. Could not have lasted too long though.... Would really enjoy seeing a photo when you get that camera fixed.

 

[simon505]

Cheers for all your replies gentlemen. This appears to have started an intersting topic here.

Okay. I bought the cover over a year ago from a dealer in London for £150. With it he provided a page from a reference book of a period photo of soldiers wearing the cover. The picture is of the 40th Fusiler Regiment in a pose suggesting that they are experts at Trench Raiding (lots stick grenades and chest bags)

It is I believe an M1915 without the covering part for the spike. To be worn on the 1915 grey fittings pickelhaube with removable spike. The numbers are '40' and appear to be green felt or another type of cloth. The stitching is red interestingly enough. The numbers are the colour of the example with number '73' on Colonel J's site. This is I believe the 40TH FUSILIER REGIMENT (Karl Anton Von Hohenzollern) These numerals are concealed (as shown in the pictures that you chaps posted) with a square of cloth. The only reason I can see the numerals (and at that, not much) is because one corner of the flap is loose. The slits at the side for the chin strap are present. The card stiffened 'flaps' are exactly like those shown on Colonel J's site from the Loree collection - private purchase 61 Uberzug. Both sides of the front flap are clearly stamped DRP and one side of back flap has an illegible black inkstamp which is also likely to be DRP.

In my opinion it would take a bloody magician to come up with a copy of this quality. It's old, it's worn, its discolored, it smells (not of Eastern European workshops) but of age and wear.

I have some pictures provided by the seller at the time which I could try to scan if possible.

Again chaps I appreciate any views on this you have. All the best
Simon.

P.S Tony - I emailed you with pics at the time I was considering buying it (I'm the bloke who always emails to ask your opinion before buying stuff!) and asked you what you thought. At the time you gave me the okay. Is there any recollection of it?

P.P.S On a different note - Can anyone tell me what the regimental stamping 'A F' on a bayonet crossguard could stand for? I thought Artillerie zu Fuss but now I'm not so sure.

 

[joerookery]

With it he provided a page from a reference book of a period photo of soldiers wearing the cover. The picture is of the 40th Fusiler Regiment

I wonder what book?

wearing the cover.

Without the patch nes pa?

t is I believe an M1915 without the covering part for the spike. To be worn on the 1915 grey fittings pickelhaube with removable spike.

Could be. Anyone could buy a private purchase cover. Could be officer but not gray metal.

This is I believe the 40TH FUSILIER REGIMENT

Could also be arty.

Can anyone tell me what the regimental stamping 'A F' on a bayonet crossguard could stand for? I thought Artillerie zu Fuss

Correct according to Kania.

The patch is very interesting.

 

[J.LeBrasseur]

In my opinion, I think you are correct:

A.F. Fuss-Atrillerie-Regiment


Would love to see pictures of this cover, sounds awesome

James

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

:sign9:

 

[Lost Skeleton]

Hello Simon:

These pictures are old and the quality not great, but they illustrate an Überzug like the one you describe. It is a private purchase/Offizier cover displayed on a Preußen M15 officer helmet (the cover is too large for this particular helmet).

The cover is marked, DRP, Deutsches Reichspatent, and the spike cover, DRGM, Deutsches Reichsgebrauchsmuster.

I purchased this from Weitze a few years back, and it was never issued. The size label is still sewn to the Überzug. As you can see, it is a very large cover, indeed.

Chas.

 

[simon505]

So the M15 Helmet cover was two part - a part for the spike and a part for the helmet. I see. So this helmet wasn't specifically for the M15 removable spike helmet.

I've remembered that in Osprey's the German Army in WW1 there is another picture of EM's wearing M15s without spike and this type of cover without the patch on it. The comment in the book says something about the 40 Fus Reg being the forerunners of the storm troops. It could indeed be artillery too.

In the photocopy that came with the cover (sorry I don't know which book it's from) the troops have the numbers on the helmet covered unlike in Osprey. Was it common to cover green numbers in the field. I know red numbers made a lovely target for the Brits and French in the opposite trench but weren't the green numbers introduced as they were supposed to be better camouflage? Even so the Green numbers are covered. Maybe the red stiching wasn't too helpful for this chap.

So Artillerie zu Fuss sound right does it?

Many thanks guys.

Simon

 

[Lost Skeleton]

So this...wasn't specifically for the M15 removable spike helmet.

Hello Simon:

Actually, I believe the two part cover was developed specifically for the M15. Remember, officer helmets had detachable spikes as well. The M15 represented the first and final attempt to standardize the Pickelhaube and the AKO directive applied to all ranks.

I have seen one piece covers worn by officers sans spike (in which the spike cover is simply knotted in a ball). Then, there is the two piece Überzug, a convertible if you will. I have also seen instances where officer chinscales had individual covers (sleeves) so they could be worn in the field without exposing the brass as in my example.

Cheers,

Chas.

 

[simon505]

Can anyone tell me when the DRGM stamp started being used? I've heard it was in 1929 but I'm sure there's a load of WW1 stuff DRGM stamped.

I really want to know so I can have the joy of correcting someone.

Lost Skeleton - your cover is DRGM stamped isn't it?

Simon

 

[Lost Skeleton]

The cover is marked, DRP, Deutsches Reichspatent, and the spike cover, DRGM, Deutsches Reichsgebrauchsmuster.

Lost Skeleton - your cover is DRGM stamped isn't it?

Hello Simon:

That would be correct.

Chas.

 

[reservist1]

Can anyone tell me when the DRGM stamp started being used?

The term DRGM is an abbreviation for Deutsches Reich Gebrauchsmuster
(German Reich Registered Design). The marking,with or without a number, can be found on many German manufactured products. I don't know the specific date the mark was introduced but its use definitely predates 1900.

Reservist1

 

[Gustaf]

Can anyone tell me when the DRGM stamp started being used?

The term DRGM is an abbreviation for Deutsches Reich Gebrauchsmuster
(German Reich Registered Design). The marking,with or without a number, can be found on many German manufactured products. I don't know the specific date the mark was introduced but its use definitely predates 1900.

Reservist1

Hello Simon
R1 is correct, as proof that DGRM predates WWI, I have a copy of the Neumann & Müller catalogues open to the Müller catalogue, and many items are shown with their DRGM markings. This catalogue dates from late 1913 to early 1914.
Best wishes
Gus

PS Here is information on ordering the catalogue
Neumann & Müller Imperial German Military Catalogues: A Resource for Collectors and Historians
http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=38699

The book is now available for purchase from the publisher. It will be available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble's and other booksellers in a matter of weeks. The cost from the publisher, AuthorHouse, $28.99 and is three dollars less than the retail price. The ISBN is 1425938760 .

 

[Lost Skeleton]

In the original pickelhaubes forum, I wrote a thread on items bearing D.R.G.M. certification. George (keoki7) contirbuted some very interesting examples.

I further know of a corkscrew, the Columbus, patented by Edward Becker in 1893 with multiple D.R.G.M. markings. Therefore, D.R.G.M. certification precedes the 20th century.

Below is the picture I used to illustrate some of my pieces, including a screwback wound badge in silver.

In a related thread, the subject is being examined here:

http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2227

Chas.

 

[Lost Skeleton]

Simon:

The following link provides information on commericial corkscrews and D.R.G.M. dates.

http://www.muesch-online.com/drgm.html

You can also google D.R.G.M. and variations on Deutsches Reichsgebrauchsmuster, i.e., Deutsches Reichs Gebrauchs Muster, etc., for more results.

Chas.

 

[simon505]

Well I think you've put the rumour about the DRGM being a post ww1 invention well and truly into the ground.

I read from some monkey on ebay that DRGM was invented after 1929 and knew this was a load of rubbish. Especially as I have an Imperial German DEMAG trench knife stamped DRGM.

Cheers again,

Simon

 

[zipperheads9]

THIS IS WHY I LOVE THIS FORUM LEARNING STUFF EVERY TIME I GET ON .Thanks for the info Chas
Mark