M1916 Camouflage Helmet

S

simon505

New member
Hi Gents,

look I know it's sacrilige but I've posted this one in the pickelhaubes section despite it not regarding one. But as a helmet matter I wanted to catch the eyes of helmet collectors and I know that many of you don't stop your helmet collecting at Pickelhaubes.

I have come across a M1916 steel helmet on a site here in the UK. It has three colour block cammo in Green, tan and mid brown. It is stamped with makers mark for Eisenhuetten Thale and is a size 66.

Please see links for pictures.

I'm really into this example but just wanted to run it by the experts before a purchase. It's pretty expensive but I love the cammo scheme and no two are the same (I like examples with that bit more tan) I think I'm going to have to go for it. Appreciate any info, advice, criticism.

All the Best,

Simon

http://www.regimentals.co.uk/shop/viewphoto.php?shoph=35991&phqu=5

http://www.regimentals.co.uk/shop/viewphoto.php?shoph=35991a&phqu=5

http://www.regimentals.co.uk/shop/viewphoto.php?shoph=35991b&phqu=5

http://www.regimentals.co.uk/shop/viewphoto.php?shoph=35991c&phqu=5

http://www.regimentals.co.uk/shop/viewphoto.php?shoph=35991d&phqu=5
 
Hi Simon,
I can not see anything wrong with this helmet, except the loss of finish. I would bet that this is one of the few camos that served in the trenches, rather than being a post war trophy paint job. I am unwilling to comment on the value, as I am about five years behind on prices on these things, mainly because I can not believe how much they have increased in value (partly because I am cheap). I will say that no matter how much you pay, it will no doubt be worth more in the future. I have overpaid for many items I have in my collection, because I wanted it, and I felt that if I waited, the price would be more before I found another example.
Best wihses
Gus
 
I agree with Gus on this one.....the helmets that were honestly there during the late years of WW1 show wear to the finish. These stahlhelme were a pain to have on your head except when needed. Naturally, you would take them off and throw them on the ground during a rest period. I have 2 good examples in my collection and they both show wear to the finish on top of the helmet. Brian
 
Cheers Gentlemen.

What do you make of the camouflage finish? Was it common to use a pale brown such as this one? I know that the soldiers didn't totally follow the orders on these and did what they felt like to their shells.

Were all helmets stamped with a size marking?

All the best,

Simon
 
Hi Simon:
All stahlhelme were size marked. Regarding the colours. they look totally legitimate to me. The best camo I have has red brown, the same green as yours and a light toffee brown. Again if you look at the wear / misssing paint on the top, the pattern is totally legit. My second camo which was bought from the son of the WW1 veteran (a CEF pioneer) who brought it back from the Canal du Nord has the same wear on it. In this case, not only is the top camo paint missing but the original factory finish has been worn off there as well. Brian
 
Simon,

I agree with the guys. The helmet looks fine to me. I have a dozen of these helmets in the standard camouflage colours and yours look correct.

I don't necessarily subscribe to the theory that most of these helmets were painted after war. I figure that with the direction to paint them issued in July 1918, a large proportion (whatever that may be) of these helmets must have been painted both in workshops and by individuals during the final four months of the war. With millions of helmets then in use this would result in enormous numbers of regulation-painted camouflage helmets being available for souvenir hunters.

I would be surprised if the newly liberated Belgian peasants, assuming they had access to great quantities of the regulation four paint colours, could have produced souvenir helmets in numbers to match or exceed the genuine wartime camouflaged helmets.

Some of my examples here:

dsc03758zy7.jpg

Mike
 
Mike, It appears that some of your hats are horribly bent on one side. If you do a search on "hat blocking" I'm sure you can get those flattened out. :confused4:
 
Thankyou one and all.

Cheers for the pics Mike - I was in Brisbane back in March staying with my friend's pommy cousin.

I think I'll go for this one then. This is really the only outstanding item in an embarrassingly large collection and I hope I'll finally be able to stop and stand back and appreciate it now.

All the best,

Simon
 
Hey Mike,
I concure with Tony, those hats look like they need a little tender loving care, I have a lot of experiance in blocking hats, so send them over with the Grabenpanzer when you get the time.
As for the thoughts on the camos being post war, one reason for that speculation is the lack of period photos of German soldiers wearing camoed helmets. There is one set of photos taken (probably by a Chap with a lopsided hat) of German prisoners captured on August 8 1918 that shows several soldiers wearing camoed helmets (mostly the black boardered pattern). Another item that backs up the theory of post war paint jobs, is the camoed US helmets and the US helmets that have unit insignia painted on them. A great many of the US camos are the same pattern as the German camo and use the same paint, and these US helmets are generally considered post war.
Bes twihses
Gus
 
I wonder where this 1918 cammo order came from? Did the light bulb suddenly come on in the minds of the AKO? Could it not have been the typical bureaucratic catch up to something that was already being done in the field?? Another government acceptance of what practicality and experience had already created?? Brian
 
According to Ludwig Baer, " The History of the German Steel Helmet", the cammo order came from Ludendorf :

Chief of the General Staff of the Field Army
II. No. 91 366 7 July 1918

It mentioned that "The authorized trials have produced the following result:". So there was a trial period before he ordered the cammo paint jobs. Sadly no mention of how or why the trials were brought about is mentioned in the book. The order described colors and methods on how to cammo steel helmets, cannons & mortars, and machine guns.

Geo
 
I wonder how successful this camouflage was. I mean we all know that the SS camouflage covers introduced in WW2 were the best and have influenced alot of camouflage worn by soldiers of all countries today, but how successful was this type?

Bought helmet yesterday and hope to get it displayed in a perspex case along with my Lederschutzmaske 17 (liberated by a doughboy who sent it home to his parents, addressing the tin 'Massachusetts' and with his in the field AEF details).

Many thanks to everyone who's shared their wisdom on this one. If any of you know anything about German shoulder boards then please have a glance at my thread in the uniforms and accessories section of general militaria discussion entitled 'Relic m1915 shoulder boards'.

All the best,

Simon
 
Hey Simon
Tony might know a thing or two about shoulderbards, I think he has a few of them. I believe that he camo had to help, anything to change the helmet from a large dark defined target to something that was not uniform would give the wearer a split second of extra time before the shot would be made.
Best wishes
Gus
 
Mike stop teasing gus with the Aussie Slouches .
The fact that the helmets came in an apple green was not a bad decision . The fact that it came late and was only done to a comparetively small number as to total made . The Blocade was working and camouflage applied i the trench will stand out in a town or village or even a different area.
zippey
 
flasheart said:
Simon,

I agree with the guys. The helmet looks fine to me. I have a dozen of these helmets in the standard camouflage colours and yours look correct.

I don't necessarily subscribe to the theory that most of these helmets were painted after war. I figure that with the direction to paint them issued in July 1918, a large proportion (whatever that may be) of these helmets must have been painted both in workshops and by individuals during the final four months of the war. With millions of helmets then in use this would result in enormous numbers of regulation-painted camouflage helmets being available for souvenir hunters.

I would be surprised if the newly liberated Belgian peasants, assuming they had access to great quantities of the regulation four paint colours, could have produced souvenir helmets in numbers to match or exceed the genuine wartime camouflaged helmets.

Some of my examples here:

dsc03758zy7.jpg

Mike
Click to expand...


Simon ; I have read at least two American regimental histories that describe enterprising individuals in their ranks "setting up shop" painting german helmets .You know the sort of pimp my hat fascination that has made other veterans nickel plate pistols and attach rather silly stories to same. At least on this side of the pond most camo helmets are suspicious.
 
Hey Gew98,
We really should start collecting the stories that have been added to artifacts, as an example, I recently purchased a Spanish pistol that, accordig to the seller's story, was brought back from Cuba after the Spanish American war. The seller was suprised to be told that the pistol was made two decades after the Span Am war and was used by the French.
Gus
 
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