M49 Hessian

[CLOVIS 57]

Here's a suggestion then for the 1st Leibgarde Regiment. The bandeau then passed into the 115th later.

Thank you for this document, which shows that the 1621 banner was used as early as the 1849 model. This is the first time I have noted this detail. Until now, I always knew that it dated from 1871.
Which book is it?

 

[CLOVIS 57]

I asked another collector who is authoritative on these helmets. He believes that it is a Hesse-Darmstadt schlossgarde or palace guard helmet but more research is needed to confirm 100%. .

The Compagnie of Uffz- Garde du Corps at the Palace was never 1621. In 1871 it had 1657, and in 1897, as the creation date was incorrect, the 1657 was replaced by 1623. The helmet was made of nickel silver after 1871. (The 115 only in 1897).
Here is a page documenting the banners.

The helmets of the Garde-Schloss NCO company are extremely rare. No model prior to M1897 (nickel silver lion with double crown of foliage) has ever been seen. I have only seen one helmet in 50 years, and 2 are known at most. Here's one of the 2, proposed by ‘Sergio’ a few years ago.

It would appear that all these additive banners were decided on by the Grand Duke when he was placed under Prussian nomenclature in 1871.

 

[Nacuaa]

The Compagnie of Uffz- Garde du Corps at the Palace was never 1621. In 1871 it had 1657, and in 1897, as the creation date was incorrect, the 1657 was replaced by 1623. The helmet was made of nickel silver after 1871. (The 115 only in 1897).
Here is a page documenting the banners.
View attachment 55408
The helmets of the Garde-Schloss NCO company are extremely rare. No model prior to M1897 (nickel silver lion with double crown of foliage) has ever been seen. I have only seen one helmet in 50 years, and 2 are known at most. Here's one of the 2, proposed by ‘Sergio’ a few years ago.
View attachment 55409
It would appear that all these additive banners were decided on by the Grand Duke when he was placed under Prussian nomenclature in 1871.

This is fascinating information. But can we really say the Compagnie of Uffz- Garde du Corps at the Palace was never 1621? How do we know that given that the Grand Dukes seemed to have a policy of changing these dates and no one here has ever seen an1849 Garde Schloss helmet before Amy's acquisition. Both 1621 and 1623 are the dates of events that dramatically affected Hesse Darmstadt during the Thirty-Years War.

 

[JPT]

https://www.pickelhaubes.com/xf/threads/m49-hessian.19922/post-152405

 

[Sandmann]

Very good eyes
If you look closely, you can also see slight imprint of the removed ribbon on the right-hand side of the photo.

 

[JPT]

The Compagnie of Uffz- Garde du Corps at the Palace was never 1621. In 1871 it had 1657, and in 1897, as the creation date was incorrect, the 1657 was replaced by 1623. The helmet was made of nickel silver after 1871. (The 115 only in 1897).
Here is a page documenting the banners.
View attachment 55408
The helmets of the Garde-Schloss NCO company are extremely rare. No model prior to M1897 (nickel silver lion with double crown of foliage) has ever been seen. I have only seen one helmet in 50 years, and 2 are known at most. Here's one of the 2, proposed by ‘Sergio’ a few years ago.
View attachment 55409
It would appear that all these additive banners were decided on by the Grand Duke when he was placed under Prussian nomenclature in 1871.

Does anyone have a nice photo of this rare helmet 1657 ?

 

[CLOVIS 57]

To illustrate Sandy's point, here's an M49 helmet from Hesse Grand-Ducale Darmstadt compared with an M45 helmet from Hesse Electorale Cassel.

***Kassel :

In fact a Prussian M42 helmet, but with the electoral Lion, without the wreath of branches.

***Darmstadt :

This time, it's a Hessian speciality: a typical fluted tip and a round visor.

 

[GardeUlan]

To illustrate Sandy's point, here's an M49 helmet from Hesse Grand-Ducale Darmstadt compared with an M45 helmet from Hesse Electorale Cassel.

***Kassel :
View attachment 55947View attachment 55948
In fact a Prussian M42 helmet, but with the electoral Lion, without the wreath of branches.

***Darmstadt :
View attachment 55949
This time, it's a Hessian speciality: a typical fluted tip and a round visor.

Thank you very much for showing!

Interestingly this is again the same Hesse-Darmstadt helmet which was shown earlier. Weitze had the helmet several times for sale during the last decades.

Best wishes

GardeUlan

 

[CLOVIS 57]

That's right! These 2 Hessian helmets, from before the wars of 1864 and 1866, are so rare that I have no other photos in my archives. Especially the Kassel, I've never seen another.

 

[JPT]

Rastatt Museum

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Thank you JPT,
and what's more, an officer's helmet !!!

 

[Sandmann]

Hello together,
I promised to ask the German Society for Military Science for their opinion on these helmets, but unfortunately I still haven't received an answer, which wasn’t a good sign at all. I therefore contacted Jan Kube with the photos of the two Hessian M1849s of the LIR115 from Amy and James, who kindly replied immediately. You may know that Jan Kube himself runs an auction house and also works as an expert (Gutachter) for militaria.
Here is his reply, which I have translated into English:
“I suspect that both helmets are assembled and not original: the helmet with white fittings has in my opinion a cast emblem, galvano or similar, the edges are very high and the details of the lion etc. aren't good.
The helmet with the yellow fittings seems to me to be originally a Swedish infantry helmet model 1845 and clearly has double holes under the emblem.”