Model 1871

W

wihu61

New member
For a long tiime I thought, "well, two is enough". But when saw this m-1871 at "weitze" for a very fair price I couldn't resist (I never see these on Ebay anyway)

a few questions:

Obviously this helmet has been worn for a long time, it has both the reichs- and prussian kokarde (size 1897). To bring it back to the 1871-state would require a larger kokarde I believe?

I think the spike can be turned (see photo) but it is stuck (a drop of oil perhaps?)

biggest dilemma: should I polish the metal parts (tombak) or not? It has a beautifull even patina now, but bringing it back to its original state seems a nice idea to me (I tried a bit on the back of the rim on the front and it became a bright yellowish color)

several stamps, but very vague. The only thing I can read is "R 80" (probably IR 80?)

HW, Netherlands

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Interesting difference in height and the different "unpolished" nature of the model 1871 compared to the later models. The Würtemberg one is clearly an "Eigentumshelm", The chinstrap of the "feldgrau" one is repro, perhaps I should burry it for a few weeks in he garden or so...
with excuses for my english, this is the best I can do...
groeten HW
 
A very nice addition, My opinion differs from many on this forum, but I believe that if you polish the helmet, you no longer have an original helmet, it is a restored helmet, and you can never go back. In nearly every area of collecting, the original finish is about half the value of the item, and to remove the patina, you remove the original finish (again in my opinion) I know that Tony believes that the original finish should be a high polish, and to clean and polish the helmet, you are actually exposing the original finish, so the ball is back in your court. You must make up your own mind as to how you want to see this helmet.
Best wishes
Gus
 
HW,

I am one of the least knowledgable here, but I think once you polish the metal parts you've damaged the antique value of the helmet. I'm with Gus on that. I think it's all right to carefully wipe off the dirt and dust, but I wouldn't polish any of the metal parts. I know that the leather needs to be taken care of, but I'd leave the metal parts alone.
 
Gustaf said:
// I know that Tony believes that the original finish should be a high polish//
Click to expand...

Not true Gus. I always advise to only remove dust and grime from a helmet. I prefer to leave the patina, and advise people to not polish the fittings. See this link HERE.
 
Nice helmet, that was indeed reasonably priced by Weitze. But please, DO NOT polish the metal fittings! In my opinion there is nothing worse than a nice, old, seasoned leather shell with sparkling metal fittings. This is too often the sad fate of helmets unearthed by laypeople. This one has a very nice patina. Keep it as it is.
Bruno
 
Tony & Kaiser said:
Gustaf said:
// I know that Tony believes that the original finish should be a high polish//
Click to expand...

Not true Gus. I always advise to only remove dust and grime from a helmet. I prefer to leave the patina, and advise people to not polish the fittings. See this link HERE.
Click to expand...

Oops, Sorry Tony, maybe that was Brian's take, but now I will be in trouble with him, I remember now your comment on your Arty shell that had been polished to a high luster. Anyhoo, thanks for setting me straight.
Best wihses
Gus
 
My humble opinion.... As a restorer of pickelhauben basically whatever the customer desires settles the question. However, to me although this helme is certainly a beautiful piece I would gently clean the fittings. To me what we see here is the result of years of oxidization and nothing that was original to the helmet. We all know that during service these fittings were cleaned and polished regularly so the original owners had no qualms about cleaning. I would not clean fittings if I knew that the process would produce dammage to the orignal finish especially for example officer gilding. However, in repect to officer fittings I only use solvents that will not take the gilding off officer wappen etc. I also repect the fact that these helmets have a limited lifespan and I only clean the helmets in my personal collection once. This is a difficult question overall and I guess that the only answer lies in the fact that if you bought it then you control its fate. The only proviso is that anyhting you do should not harm the item. When I do a restitch for example, I know that basically this is a one shot deal. Leather helmets only have one restitch in them...the small leather bits between the stitch holes can only take one abusive proceedure. In your mind, you should be doing something that is going to preserve this piece of History. Brian
 
Yup, good old foot in mouth disease hits again. Sorry Brian. I am glad to be set straight, while one can not compair a helmet like this 1871 to a helmet that is in need af restitching, as that type of helmet is in bad need of restoration. I am always amazed at the results of Brian's work, he can take a helmet that many people would have thrown in the trash, and with some very skilled workmanship, turn it into a helmet that anyone would be proud to display on their shelf,
Best wishes
Gus
 
wihu61 said:
\And hat about the spike? I believe one must be able to turn it?
Click to expand...
Yes, usually on these the spike neck will rotate to cut-off the air vents. If you are VERY careful, a little shot of spray lubricant (here we have something called WD40) into the hole on both sides, between the inside and outside sleeve (not into the inside of the spike) should do it. That is a very nice helmet by the way.
 
Tony & Kaiser said:
wihu61 said:
\And hat about the spike? I believe one must be able to turn it?
Click to expand...
Yes, usually on these the spike neck will rotate to cut-off the air vents. If you are VERY careful, a little shot of spray lubricant (here we have something called WD40) into the hole on both sides, between the inside and outside sleeve (not into the inside of the spike) should do it. That is a very nice helmet by the way.
Click to expand...

And I presume that this one has always been used (because it has two "kokarden" from a later period)
So in some regiments there would be some guys wit an "antique" helmet? :oops:
 
wihu61 said:
And I presume that this one has always been used (because it has two "kokarden" from a later period) So in some regiments there would be some guys wit an "antique" helmet? :oops:
Click to expand...
Absolutely. That helmet could have been made as late as 1887, before the M1887 was released. That is only ten years from the first use of the Reich's Kokarde. Have a look at THIS thread where we talk about the "issue dates"
 
Absolutely. That helmet could have been made as late as 1887, before the M1887 was released. That is only ten years from the first use of the Reich's Kokarde. Have a look at THIS thread where we talk about the "issue dates"[/quote]

thanks,
nice site btw,
you're doing a brilliant job building this ship...

gr HW
 
Hi Wihu61

Very nice M 71 helmet.

I would say: don't try to separe the spike. I don't think this one is removable, just turning on its base

Here is mine:

 
monfort said:
I would say: don't try to separe the spike. I don't think this one is removable, just turning on its base
Click to expand...
Eric, I do not think he wants to remove the spike top, I believe (?) he just wants to rotate the neck air vent. Tony
 
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