Musée Royal de l'Armée et d'Histoire Militaire - Bruxelles
- Thread starter Rendsburg
- Start date
Liongules
New member
Rendsburg said:#2
Id please.
It's kind of hard to see in that case, but isn't that the Braunschweig totenkopf? I believe that's a helmet from Braunschweigisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr.92. But, I'm definitely one of the least knowledgable here, so Otto you may want to wait for one of the more learned ones to respond! :lol:
Kaiser Bill
Member
Mike,
You are right on with your I.D. Bill
You are right on with your I.D. Bill
chrispaulodale
Active member
Hey! Those are my photos! I took those a couple of years back, except for the first one. No offence taken however, it's good to see them put to good use here. There's a couple more of those pics and in bigger versions at www.germancolonialuniforms.co.uk
The Pickelhaube is indeed a Brunswick Totenkopf one, with another next to it just visible. The Tschakos are Seebatallion.
That museum is great isn't it? Here's another couple of pics from there.
Cheers
Chris
The Pickelhaube is indeed a Brunswick Totenkopf one, with another next to it just visible. The Tschakos are Seebatallion.
That museum is great isn't it? Here's another couple of pics from there.
Cheers
Chris
Belgianator
New member
That is indeed one of the best museums in the world.
I visit it 3 to 4 times per year (but I live overthere, so I am fortunate to visit it every now and then)
Did you see that cork shako of the Seebatallion. That is one of the rarest birds you 'll ever come across.
I visit it 3 to 4 times per year (but I live overthere, so I am fortunate to visit it every now and then)
Did you see that cork shako of the Seebatallion. That is one of the rarest birds you 'll ever come across.
joerookery
Well-known member
Max,
A million thanks as usual! I cannot fully read the card -- I think it says 108th Mountain division from Wurrtemberg?!?!
If that is so and I would ask you to confirm then that division did not go to Serbia -- I have never heard of this. I know of no reference that talks about a train battalion. A blank scroll -- what will you find next? You are a treasure! Now if only I could speak French...
This one has a cockade. And it looks to me as though it is a Reichs cockade??
That makes no sense does it?
A million thanks as usual! I cannot fully read the card -- I think it says 108th Mountain division from Wurrtemberg?!?!
If that is so and I would ask you to confirm then that division did not go to Serbia -- I have never heard of this. I know of no reference that talks about a train battalion. A blank scroll -- what will you find next? You are a treasure! Now if only I could speak French...
This one has a cockade. And it looks to me as though it is a Reichs cockade??
That makes no sense does it?
Joe, if you start taking museum descriptions as gospel, you are going into dangerous territory. I have seen museums ID Artillery helmets as Dragoner, Train as Jäger, you name it. My advice is to completely ignore the museum description and use your eyes instead.
joerookery
Well-known member
I quite agree -- while far from gospel there seems to be a thread of something here. As usual there is no attribution -- how did they figure that out? In 1918 that division was nothing more than an administrative headquarters with a couple Bulgarian units and some support units including the mule trains. Did they wear these helmets as late as 1918 in Macedonia?
Robert somewhere you determined the nationality of many of these GMGAs. where is that? Is that in a Reichs archive book? While you are thinking why don't you try to figure out what unit that 18 is??? My gut tells me it's a pioneer but I cannot find good reference can you?
Something to thank these museums for -- their artifacts so well displayed. I did update the article at
http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/Scroll_helmets.html[/img]
Great infos, those pictures are absolutely stunnig! Sorry I missed out so long but now I´m back home.
The Reichsarchive book 11 lists the Württemberg 4. "Tragtier-Kolonne" which would translate into 4. mounted carriage company (supposing a Kolonne is company size). A Tragtier is a carriage horse or mule, the German and Austrian armies still have Tragtier companies today in their mountain divisions. I could not determine which division this unit was attached to, but I guess its a good candidate for the helmet with the empty scroll.
Württemberg: GMGA 250
Saxony: 249
Bavaria: 206-209 (later GMGA 262), and 248
Prussia: 201-205, 210-247, 251-255 (in 1918, 15 of these these bacame the new units 260, 261 and 263-265)
The Reichsarchive book 11 lists the Württemberg 4. "Tragtier-Kolonne" which would translate into 4. mounted carriage company (supposing a Kolonne is company size). A Tragtier is a carriage horse or mule, the German and Austrian armies still have Tragtier companies today in their mountain divisions. I could not determine which division this unit was attached to, but I guess its a good candidate for the helmet with the empty scroll.
That was the book "Die Württ. Gebirgs- und Sturmtruppen im Weltkrieg 1914-18" by Hubert Lanz in 1929. Here is the info given there:
Württemberg: GMGA 250
Saxony: 249
Bavaria: 206-209 (later GMGA 262), and 248
Prussia: 201-205, 210-247, 251-255 (in 1918, 15 of these these bacame the new units 260, 261 and 263-265)
If the Württemberg troops that were sent to the Serbian front in 1915 used the scroll helmet for their carriage unit, it may have been used in other auxillary units too. I have to get back to the library my next free day and look through the references of the mountain troops in that book. For example, I could imagine the Gebirgs Artillerie-Abteilungen using scroll helmets too. But on the other hand, this 18 need not be linked to the other units in Serbia at all. Also note that the neck flap as well as the strap are different from the typical style that we know ftom the GMGA pictures.
Addition: The book "Die Württ. Gebirgs- und Sturmtruppen im Weltkrieg 1914-18" mentions that the 101st division was attached to the X. Reserve Korps in Serbia in 1915 the same time GMGA 250 moved there. The 101st division was reduced in the way you described ("Div.-Kommando zu besonderer Verwendung", i.e., divisional command unit for special use) on 14.07.1917.
I just noticed, the numbers of the 212 hemet are painted, not stamped! I always wondered about going through the extra effort of providing units in company size their own helmet plates. But if the plates were blank and the numbers only added with a stencil then it all makes sense.
And the blank helmet described as Württemberg by the museum itself appears to have reveived a prussian cocarde and a replacement chin strap.
I just noticed, the numbers of the 212 hemet are painted, not stamped! I always wondered about going through the extra effort of providing units in company size their own helmet plates. But if the plates were blank and the numbers only added with a stencil then it all makes sense.
And the blank helmet described as Württemberg by the museum itself appears to have reveived a prussian cocarde and a replacement chin strap.