Need Help with Painted Bavarian Field Artillery Pickel (M15 Conversion?)

[Pickle(hauben)Enjoyer]

Hello everyone,

I’m looking for info/guesses as to how this Pickel ended up this way.

The main thing that immediately jumps out at me as odd is the presence of two sets of Wappen holes, one for the m1886 and another for another (I presume the m1896 or 1914 Bavarian types?). Was there a shortage if the smaller type or was this Pickel reassembled using parts form many Pickels.
As can be seen in the images below the Wappen is original to the Haube and has been on for quite a while.

The other thing that also stands out is how all the components have been painted Feldgrau (with a red primer underneath, which I think was standard in Imperial/Nazi Germany. My guess is the conversion took place sometime in ww1 either prior or during the switch to m15 Haubes, though I’d love to be corrected.

The markings seem to be fairly clear to me except for 8FB - as far as I can tell it’s shorthand for ‘Feldbatterie’ or something along those lines though again I might be wrong.

I’d also like to hear about which parts I should get to complete the Haube, particularly the Schuppenketten as I’d guess Feldgrau ones are Essentially impossible to find. As for Kokarden I’d guess just a regular set of ww1 Bavarian officer ones.

This is my second Pickel and I’m really happy to add it to my collection, I think it will look quite nice in my cabinet.

Thanks in advance and please feel free to enlighten me!

 

[Lars13]

Hello,
Looks more like oxidized brass to me, but is hard to judge without having the helmet in hand. Helmet seems to be correct for Bavarian Feldartillerie other ranks with the eckigem Vorderschirm, Kreuzblatt and gekehlter Spitze, so I don't think this is a parts helmet. The Kokarden should be Bavarian other ranks, as it is not an officers helmet.
I can't explain the double Wappen holes, but it looks like a nice original helmet to me, congratulations!
Regards,
Lars

EDIT: the "FB" can refer to "fahrende Batterie".

 

[Pickle(hauben)Enjoyer]

Hello,
Looks more like oxidized brass to me, but is hard to judge without having the helmet in hand. Helmet seems to be correct for Bavarian Feldartillerie other ranks with the eckigem Vorderschirm, Kreuzblatt and gekehlter Spitze, so I don't think this is a parts helmet. The Kokarden should be Bavarian other ranks, as it is not an officers helmet.
I can't explain the double Wappen holes, but it looks like a nice original helmet to me, congratulations!
Regards,
Lars

EDIT: the "FB" can refer to "fahrende Batterie".

Hi Lars,

Apologies for not replying sooner. I’m somewhat inclined to agree with the metal parts having heavily oxidised/tarnished overtime, as can be seen on the back of the Wappen.

On the other hand though, the rest of the helmet particularly the spine really does seem painted to me, with the grey having a thick/paint-like texture covering a seemingly smoother layer of primer/oxidised brass underneath. I feel like the interior of the spike base would have also oxidised/tarnished a bit if the the entire thing was due to oxidation. Also the spike seemingly seems polished/shiny in areas where it has been worn down which I feel would be more consistent with a paint layer chipping off rather than oxidation.

I guess the only way to tell is to take more better and closer pictures to allow for more accurate assessment, however it is currently 3 AM here so I wound be doing so now.

As for the cockades would these be universal type or would I need specific ones?
Just saw your added comment as well thanks for clarifying.

Cheers,

Max

 

[Lars13]

Hi Max,
I think general Bavarian other ranks Kokarden would be appropriate, but I hope other members can confirm that.
Regards,
Lars

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Hello,
Bavaria has always maintained a certain originality in its hairstyles, compared with the regulatory Prussian standards.
In 1886, it adopted the spiked helmet (replacing the Raupenhelm), but this was a special helmet, common to the infantry, artillery and cavalry!
Identical, except for the chinstrap, with flat scales for dismounted troops (Infantry, Artillery zu Fuß) and domed scales for mounted troops (Feldartillerie, SchwererReiter, Chevaulegers).
In 1896, the infantry received a new helmet to Prussian standards, with M91 side post and a leather field chinstrap, as well as a small Bavarian plate without crossed branches under the coat of arms.
In 1896, the mounted troops (F.A.R and Cavalry) kept the M1886 helmet, but the old chinstraps were replaced by new ones, still with rounded scales, but with side post. Unlike the Prussian M91s, these side post were turned from the mass, including the lug.


Infra, the Bavarian side post M96, with his enlisted man's cockade. It must be made of nickel silver. The Bavarian M96 side post and the matching chinstrap key are specific and 1mm larger in diameter than the Prussian M91, which is stamped with the added lug.
Below, for comparison, we have a Bavarian M96 chinstrap on a Prussian M91 side post (from the Bavarian M96 infantry helmet). You can clearly see the lower dimension of the side post in relation to the chinstrap key.

For pre-M15 helmets, you just need to do the magnet test to find out whether the metal is ferrous or not.
Here we have an M86/96 with brass trim, pre-M15 in grey painted sheet steel.
The exagonal nut on the rear spine return is M14 (before it was a square nut).
The plate is the large M86 plate for enlisted men, which can still be seen with its laurel branches at the time of mobilisation, although in theory it should have been replaced by the new model at the start of the war.
Regarding the 2 extra holes at the front of the hull, perhaps the M14 plate was swapped with this M86 at some point?

These helmets were worn in the field, with the helmet cover. I have never seen this model with painted trim.

Yes : F.B. is Fahrende Bataillon.

conclusion :
---M86/96 helmet from the Bavarian FeldArtillerie. It will be necessary to add a pair of roundels (Reichskokarde, and Bavarian Landkokarde enlisted) and a chinstrap of campaign (out of leather) or with scales but specific to this model.