Off JR 115

J

JR92

Member
Hello,

Looks fine at the first time. =D>

But the crown of the lion without holes ? :-k


http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=020&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=300048696831&rd=1&rd=1

(Sieht schön aus... Aber, die Krone der Lôwe ist nicht durgebrochen. Das verstehe ich nicht.) :-s

Best regards :hello2:
 
Dear JR 92, bravo! Your observation was very subtle. In one's enthusiasm to see such a rare helemt one forgets to look at all the little details.

I was saying to a friend earlier today that it is essential to do one's homweork (le devoir, n'est ce pas?), and your observation is the perfect illustration. I told him that as a beginning collector he should join our community at pickelhaubes.com and to begin with a detailed study of Tony's excellent website at The Kaiser Bunker. We owe it to fellow collectors to raise our suspicions so that all legitimate collectors can be warned in time of the questionable items being sold everywhere from Ciney to ebay.

Merci encore!
 
I'll vote for that. Fakes and frauds are everywhere; not just eBay. As legitimate helmets become increasingly scarce, I've seen "reputable" dealers trafficking in parts helmets.

The collector deserves all the help he can muster.

Chas.
 
Excellent Zorndorf! Homework should rather be "les devoirs" (plural), as a generic term.
Best wishes,
Bruno
 
I asked for the usual look at the back of the helmet plate and guess what..... he refused on the grounds that it would spoil the helmet if he touched it :p Bill
 
Dear collectors,

As prices are going over the top last few years, I have lost connection with reality. What should be a fair price for an officer's helmet IR 115 in good shape (2+).

Thanks,

Ad
 
Gentlemen:

I wrote to a friend about the difference between "voided" and "unvoided" crowns using my own Hessian dragoon EM helmet, (OYV?), as an example. I think I managed to highlight for him the subtleties that get lost when one sees such a rare and desirable helmet as IR115 and pure excitement takes over. The sellers know this too and undoubtedly rely on it in the hope that enthusiasm will overwhelm calm judgment and careful scrutiny. Merci encore JR92. (I have a Brunswick 3rd battalion that I used to illustrate your "handle" to my friend but I don't have a host site from which to post. Same problem with the Hessian DR 24.)

As to the "fair price" question by Ad - Beerens, who determines what is fair? If you look at some of the dealer sites such as Herr Weitze, https://www.weitze.net/, you can see astronomical prices being asked for such a helmet when it appears at all. An earlier thread dealt with this same topic of dealer "price inflation" based on what they think the buying market will stand. IR 115 helmets used to be in the $7000+ range for officers and about $4,000 for EMs. Those prices now look quaint!

As to my "le devoir" vs. "les deviors", Bruno what can I say? If I my French were that good I would have completely translated Larcade's two volumes into English long before now! :)

Happy hunting all and keep up the fine quality of observation and commentary here.

Bill

P.S. Is there anyone here who is sufficiently knowledgeable about French general officer kepis? I have a modest collection of Legion kepis and French cavalry but the new pattern of kepi with the general officer stars surrounded by a wreath of "oaks" surpasses ugly in my humble opinion. I am looking for someone who can advise me if the solid oak leaf band of general officer (brigadier i.e. literally general of brigade) is still being made and if so, do they have a source? :eek:

Thanks! Bis Bald!
 
Guys,

For me , I thought these should have stud fixings and not star fixing on the cruciform base.

The star should have the same finish as the bandeau.

Is that right?
 
Nube,
This is one case where either way would be correct on both counts. It was the Officer's personal preference to have the studs or stars for the spike base. The ribbon and the helmet plate had a matte finish with the edges and numerals raised and polished. In the pictures that I have the star in the center of the helmet plate is polished on some of the helmets and others have a matte finish. Bill
 
Literature does indicate that the IR115 chinscales were flat. As I watch some examples of IR115 helmets, I see both flat and convex chinscales. Are stars and chinscales fashionable items?

Thanks,

Ad
 
All,

Why is it important for the crown to be pierced?
Is this not a last issue feature<

Thanks for the earlier information.

Regards
 
Hello,
"Last issue feature" ?
I do not think... I never read anything like this.

Pierced crown : offiicer
Non-pierced : soldier or NCO.

I have the same advice that "Pro Gloria" :
a one year volunteer helmet (or private purchase) on which an enameled center was added, so that the 4 stars.

Regards :hello2:
 
This is quite a rare helmet and the final hour for bidding is drawing near so I will list my thoughts on this so that others may benefit. Draw your own conclusions and feel free to poke holes in my ideas.
The owner has posted his fathers service record on E-bay: he began his service October 1, 1908 as a Einjaehriger with the Infantrie Regiment 115. He fulfilled his obligation on September 30, 1909. Returned to active duty August 4, 1914. Vizefeldwebel July 27, 1915, Leutnant December 14, 1915. The promotion from non com to officer might explain the extra 2 holes in the helmet. The record lists all assignments, times wounded and battle participations.
So at the time of helmet purchase he was a OYV which would explain the lack of a pierced crown on the helmet plate. It appears that there were studs on the cruciform spike base at one time so he could have changed to star studs when he was promoted to an officer. Why why are there two extra holes behind the helmet plate? These were not for ventilation as there is evidence of washers around the holes. So at one time there was another helmet plate.... Why? The ventilation holes in the spike are not aligned with the arms of the spike base in an east west orientation. The 1621 ribbon is fixed to the helmet with nuts and bolts but the bolts protrude into the helmet at least one half inch and are not clipped off by diagonals as normally seen. Ouch! The motto Gott Ehre Vatterland..... Vatterland is hyphenated. I cannot see the hyphen on the motto in this case. Lastly I question that the the motto is enameled ie glass. It may be enamel paint???? Not sure.
If this were real the helmet should sell for $8000 - 10,000 so we will see. The real killer in my mind is the extra holes in the helmet shell. I cannot come up with any explanation for this. Bill
 
Hello,

I have found this name in the "Regimentsgeschichte", but the dates are not matching.
And if matching, it would not be a proof...

I have received other photos, I see extra-holes in the "teller", and what seems to be artificial rust on it.
Everybody is free to spend is money as he wants, be I do'nt feel this helmet. :protest:

liste115xp4.jpg


Best regards :eek:ccasion5:
 
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