Old Württemberg--1866-1871

Joe,

although I cannot comment on the 4th image, the first three photographs show personnel of the Württemberg Army wearing the 1864 pattern uniform. Of note is the Austrian pattern rank insignia on the collar. As the two officers are already wearing Prussian pattern "Feldachselstücke", those photos must be dated in 1870/1871.

I would suggest that you try and get copies of the Zeitschrift für Heereskunde for 1981 which has a very detailed series of articles on the Württemberg Army uniforms of this period.

Regards
Glenn
 
Glenn,

Thank you. I do not know how to get a hold of Zeitschrift für Heereskunde for 1981. I would love to. I had my own doubts about photo number two because of the iron Cross. However, I am having a problem putting 1864 uniforms from the state into the Franco-Prussian war. Larry might have some insight or perhaps you have piece parts of the 1981 article. I have a long way to go on these and I guess I have to have an understanding of the timing of the military convention between Prussia and Württemberg. I have seen this laying around here somewhere. If what you're saying holds true then the minor kingdom participated in the Franco-Prussian war using the old style uniform which might well be.
 
If what you're saying holds true then the minor kingdom participated in the Franco-Prussian war using the old style uniform which might well be.
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And indeed they did! Well I'm really back to the drawing board here. Okay.
 
Joe,

as you have already ascertained, the Württemberg Army continued to use the 1864 pattern uniform during the 1870/71 war. And indeed, they continued to wear the double breasted tunic once they had adopted Prussian headgear, rank insignia and equipment in 1871 following the war up to 1892.

I will fire up the scanner in the next couple of days and get those articles from the ZfH to you.

Regards
Glenn
 
Hi Joe

I don't think I can add too much more to what Glenn has already stated regarding the uniforms, there is only one image in our collection (an artilleryman)from Wurttemberg.The following comments are only observations on my part.

The first three images show men wearing the 1864 pattern uniform, a pattern worn with minor modifications unitil 1892. The first image has a definite bonus with the name and rank at the bottom. Good research potential on that guy. Since he is without an EK perhaps this one predates the 1870-71 War.

The second image is IMO a Home-From-The-Wars photograph, as he proudly wears his newly awarded 1870 EK2. There hasn't been time for him to have it mounted on a medal bar with his other medals.

The third shows in good clarity the plain, flat buckle worn by Wurttemberg troops before the adoption of the Prussian style buckle in 1871. Although according to the two volume set by Herr & Nguyen the earlier pattern buckle was worn for sometime after 1871. On his hip he carries an Infantry pattern Faschinenmesser, probably with a steel, rather than brass hilt. A feature of the Wurttemberg pattern sidearm. His shako/kepi is a curiosity regarding the emblem and large cockade. Maybe he was a city guard, possibly a policeman? Just guesses

The last image is really the most curious. There is a great deal of French influence in his uniform style. Long frock coat reaching to mid-thigh (the other 1864 pattern tunics are much shorter), the very French looking Kepi and the shoulder wings (not really a French feature) are much more pronounced than the previous images. He holds a rather short percussion rifle or musket with a socket bayonet on his hip. That short rifle, added to the darkened metal buttons on his coat (perhaps hard rubber like a US CW Berdan's Sharpshooter), may indicate he was a member of a rifle, or jager unit. After 1866 Wurttemberg adopted the Needle Gun. Perhaps this is the unifom which preceded the 1864 pattern worn by his comrades in the previous photos.

Anyway, my four cents thrown into the mix. Great photos Joe. :thumb up:

Larry

wtt1.jpg


His uniform shows the modifications after 1871, Brandenburg cuffs and Prussian style shoulder straps.
 
Joe,

what is your take on the signature on the photograph of the Hauptmann in image 1? Is there a location on the reverse? My ealiest Württemberg Militär-Handbuch dates from 1873 so he may turn up in it.

Regards
Glenn
 
Hey Joe,
It is definitly Winkler, if it was an "M" the little squiggle would be high instead of low in the second segment.
Best
Gus
 
Gus, Joe,

thank you for that. Unfortunately no Winkler (or Minkler) is listed in the 1873 Württemberg Militär-Handbuch. The next edition I own is from 1889 and he is not listed there as a retired officer either. I am still looking for him!

Regards
Glenn
 
Hi Guys

Here is an example of the steel gripped Faschinenmesser I spoke of http://cgi.ebay.com/J115-GERMAN-FRANCO-PRUSSIAN-WAR-FASCINE-KNIFE-MODEL-52-/150632431133?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2312647e1d

A little expensive but cool.

Larry
 
His shako/kepi is a curiosity regarding the emblem and large cockade. Maybe he was a city guard, possibly a policeman? Just guesses
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Glenn sent me all sorts of data bits. Absolutely wonderful ZfH from decades past. Number 3 is clearly a private of artillery. Nothing more beyond that so far.
 
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