OR Pickelhaube Tin M95 V D Hayden

[CLOVIS 57]

Interesting that the 1914 date and contract details take the Weissenbergers and V. der Hayden OUT of the category of ersatz. I had never before considered that to be an obvious truth I assume that data is drawn from evidence of surviving contract details?

Yes, I've already seen the document attesting to his contracts. If I can find it, I'll show it to you. What's more, this data is documented in Jean-Louis Larcade's book.
Unlike the “Ersatz” models, which are simpler to manufacture (schell stamped in a single sheet-metal wafer, no visor reinforcement ring, no brass neck cover, etc.), the Weissenburger models are complicated to manufacture and of superior quality.

 

[giorgio]

Even the cockades are specific, with a smaller central hole and a cut-out for the lug, rather like the Saxon M91;

Really great and interesting helmet (s)...
Thanks for sharing and explanations ......and a question....
On these kind of helmet (VdH), the cockades must be always of these kind or not?
Thanks
Giorgio

 

[seagull]

Interesting that the 1914 date and contract details take the Weissenbergers and V. der Hayden OUT of the category of ersatz. I had never before considered that to be an obvious truth I assume that data is drawn from evidence of surviving contract details?

Yes, I've already seen the document attesting to his contracts. If I can find it, I'll show it to you. What's more, this data is documented in Jean-Louis Larcade's book.

Thanks Clovis, I thought that might be the case, I have seen the Larcade entry and suspected that there might have been some crossovers between contractors. It was the status of these helmets as 'approved' rather than 'Ersatz' that had never occurred to me.

On these kind of helmet (VdH), the cockades must be always of these kind or not?
Thanks
Giorgio

Given the high rate of losses of kokarden in service and in all the years since then its probably not unusual to find 'standard' kokardes on a Tin, that is why I am still looking for one!

 

[b.loree]

True I have also found the reverse, a V kokarde on an M15 leather helmet. The Saxons also used the V on their state kokarde.

 

[giorgio]

Really thanks for the answers..
Giorgio

 

[coert65]

I once had a Von der Hayden which had kokarden without the V-notch, Kokarden and chinstrap were the originals. Also, still in my collection a Saxon M15 with both kokarden with a V-notch, and original strap.

 

[CLOVIS 57]

On these kind of helmet (VdH), the cockades must be always of these kind or not?

Yes, this was the pattern of roundels stamped by Weissenburger for his helmets. They were part of the Probe that had been accepted by the Minister's High Cabinet. Ditto for the Saxon “troupe” M91, still with reduced central hole, and cut-out for the de se fait lug. In fact, the circular beading around the center hole of the roundel was to cover the shoulder of the side post.

Some Weissenburgers were found with a single roundel of this type and another “standard” one. If a helmet has standard roundels, these have been exchanged at some time. Nothing to worry about, M91 roundels were easily lost at the front, in which case they were replaced by standard ones, which were much more accessible.

 

[b.loree]

Excellent photographic evidence Clovis! It always helps when we can see real pictures of what we have been talking about!

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Excellent photographic evidence Clovis! It always helps when we can see real pictures of what we have been talking about!

Thank you.
Whenever I see something interesting about spiked helmets, I archive the photo.

 

[giorgio]

Really thanks Clovis57......

Excellent photographic evidence Clovis! It always helps when we can see real pictures of what we have been talking about!

I fully agree......
Giorgio

 

[tony v]

Hi, just to add to the excellent information on this thread and the superb helmets on show here is an unissued example showing all the manufacturers traits discussed above.

Of note are the inside details as this example contains the extra padding in the helmet shell and a Cork front pad presumably to give the wearer a good fit and more comfort.

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Thanks Tony,
for these beautiful detail photos. I should add that the Weissenburger and Von der Heyden chinstraps were riveted. (as seen above). The beige felt cape and cork band are original elements, part of the construction of these helmets.
However, as the felt cape, cokades and side-post chinstrap are easily detachable. Weissenburger or v.d.Heyden models can sometimes be found with standard sewn-on chinstraps or plain roundels. These helmets came from the factory with their own special features, but at the front, replacements were no longer made using these original parts.

 

[JohnS3rd]

Thank you everyone for additional information on the kit helmets. As I often comment, I learn something every time I come on this forum.
Best regards
John

 

[tony v]

Thanks Tony,
for these beautiful detail photos. I should add that the Weissenburger and Von der Heyden chinstraps were riveted. (as seen above). The beige felt cape and cork band are original elements, part of the construction of these helmets.

Clovis 57, many thanks for your detailed explanations and quality expertise which adds significant value to the posts on the forum for all.

Happy collecting !

 

[Bobted]

A nice helmet shame about the condition. Rob