Original or messed-with chinscales

[Mild_Turkey]

Hi all,

I’m far from a beginner in the hobby but I do have a beginner type question; it’s something I’ve never been able to figure out. That being, how does one judge whether the chinscales on a private purchase/officers helmet are original or has been messed with.

So the other day a lovely Bavarian Vulcanfibre helmet by Depaheg came in the mail. Upon examination however I noticed the cockade/rosette/chinscale assembly wobbles in place. It appears that the rosette split pins are loosely secured and that from the outside I can even see the individual split pins peering through. Upon pulling back the silk skull liner to look at the inside of the shell, it looks like the hole for the rosette is quite large for some reason, about 1cm in an oval shape. Photos all included below.

From my own judgement and observations of the helmet, I can ascertain that nothing appears messed with. The star studs wear matches the baseplate, the ghosting of the wappen matches perfectly, stitches seem to be factory done, and most importantly to my question, the wear of the chin scale matches the rest of the helmet in terms of patina, wear, and where it has scraped the shell. All of this and yet the fitting of the chin scale seems suspiciously loose! Any and all thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Peter B]

Interesting situation.

You are absolutely right that everything matches perfectly so it is really strange why that hole would be that big, especially as it is kind of enlarged so there is movement up and down. I could see the owner maybe making it bigger towards the front if the chin scales were too tight against the front of the helmet. Thinking again though, maybe in this case is was to get a bit more distance downwards so the chin scales fit more comfortably when worn?

Just thinking out loud.

 

[Mild_Turkey]

Interesting situation.

You are absolutely right that everything matches perfectly so it is really strange why that hole would be that big, especially as it is kind of enlarged so there is movement up and down. I could see the owner maybe making it bigger towards the front if the chin scales were too tight against the front of the helmet. Thinking again though, maybe in this case is was to get a bit more distance downwards so the chin scales fit more comfortably when worn?

Just thinking out loud.

just a suspicion but perhaps this may be something more common with fiber helmets perhaps? Maybe due to the fragile nature of the material it’s a bit harder to punch a clean hole

 

[Mild_Turkey]

Compared to my other officers helmet where the hole has no excess and the prongs are longer

 

[b.loree]

Obviously, I have worked on a few of these helmets and there is a difference between a V fibre and leather shell. However, I do not see any cause to worry here, nothing wrong. We collectors have a tendency to focus upon small discrepancies because there is a significant amount of cash involved when buying a helmet. With something like this, a small expansion of a rosette hole in a helmet shell one has to step back and accept the fact that over all, this is an excellent piece in great condition. Everything matches and during the Imperial period, there was a great deal of "hand labour" involved which as we all know leads to imperfections. On top of that, we have no standardization of production, with hundreds of small companies supplying bits and pieces for our helmets. Looking at your chin scale photos, I have never seen in 40+ years a first scale (beside the rosette) as long as yours. Do I scream fake? No, I know that this is just yet again, a difference in manufacture. So, MT chill, you have an excellent helmet there!

 

[Mild_Turkey]

Obviously, I have worked on a few of these helmets and there is a difference between a V fibre and leather shell. However, I do not see any cause to worry here, nothing wrong. We collectors have a tendency to focus upon small discrepancies because there is a significant amount of cash involved when buying a helmet. With something like this, a small expansion of a rosette hole in a helmet shell one has to step back and accept the fact that over all, this is an excellent piece in great condition. Everything matches and during the Imperial period, there was a great deal of "hand labour" involved which as we all no leads to imperfections. On top of that, we have no standardization of production, with hundreds of small companies supplying bits and pieces for our helmets. Looking at your chin scale photos, I have never seen in 40+ years a first scale (beside the rosette) as long as yours. Do I scream fake? No, I know that this is just yet again, a difference in manufacture. So, MT chill, you have an excellent helmet there!

I appreciate your input, and I would’ve never noticed how cartoonishly long the first scale was without you pointing it out. I will be posting more images of the helmet soon

Another point I noticed earlier today was that the chinstrap leather ends are not only still attached and in the “elongated worn” position, but also it has been in this setting for many years judging from the buildup of verdigris. I suspect that if the wearer had been one of those oddballs who actually used their chinscales, it would pull the rosettes at least a little loose.

 

[b.loree]

No problem MT, glad to provide some support. I really love the V Fibre helmets, as being “almost plastic” they normally are in great condition and should last a very long time. I only have one in my collection and like yours, it is Bavarian. Please post more photos and enjoy your helmet.