Pickelhaube identification

[srussell912]

Hello, I am delving into my family history and found this picture of my great x3 grandfather, Gustav Keysser, with his pickelhaube! He was born in 1838 somewhere in Hessen and family notes call him Prussian. He sailed to the US from Bremen in 1866. He was unfortunately murdered before his full story could be told! This is the only picture of his pickelhaube, and I'm wondering if anyone has insight into what part of the military he was part of, the meaning of the plume, or anything else that sticks out. It may be impossible due to the blurriness of the picture, but any help is appreciated!

 

[ussguppy]

It looks like a Model 1842 from Mecklenburg-Schwerin, but the timing wouldn't make sense...

Later wappens I have seen don't have the full burst like this one. Maybe there is someone who knows older models better.

Great photo!

 

[CLOVIS 57]

The Schwerin star is different, shaped like a sun, with regular, rounded rays. Here we have a Prussian Guard star typ. It could possibly be the Strelitz, but it's quite different. The white Haarbusch could be an indication. Before unification in 1867, several states had such a star on their foreheads : Hanover, Oldenburg, Lippe-Detmold, etc...
It would be really interesting to be able to read the monogram or the central currency. It's also a pity that you can't see the Landkokarde, hidden behind the hair on the Busch.

 

[ussguppy]

The Schwerin star is different, shaped like a sun, with regular, rounded rays. Here we have a Prussian Guard star typ. It could possibly be the Strelitz, but it's quite different. The white Haarbusch could be an indication. Before unification in 1867, several states had such a star on their foreheads : Hanover, Oldenburg, Lippe-Detmold, etc...
It would be really interesting to be able to read the monogram or the central currency. It's also a pity that you can't see the Landkokarde, hidden behind the hair on the Busch.

Those are fantastic examples.

 

[MoDog1]

Pardon my attempt at sleuthing, but since your great grandfather was born somewhere in Hessen in 1838, it is likely he would have served in the army of one of the three independent Hessen states that existed prior to the war in 1866. To my knowledge, only one of these, the Electorate of Hessen Kassel had a regiment that wore a star on their pickelhaubes, and this was their Leib or Guard Regiment. Attached is a helmet listed in the November 2019 Hermann Historica Auction as an M1849 helmet for a bugler of the Guard Troops, whose star looks very much like the one in the photo. I hope this helps your quest.

 

[Lars13]

Hi,
Not that knowledgeable on these early helmets but with some help from Kaiser's Bunker I think this is an M1842 or M1856/57 Pickelhaube. Born 1838 means he probably did his military service around 1858, fits with both models (the Germans were very thrifty, and used superseded models long after a new model was approved, if they didn't convert them).
Unfortunately I don't have any clothing regulations from that time (far before the period that I'm normally interested in), but there are quite a lot of details visible on the photograph apart from the Pickelhaube with its Wappen and white plume: dark uniform with buttons down the middle, special "Litzen" on collar and cuffs, and light-coloured shoulder straps. The combination of all these details should narrow down which regiments he could have belonged to.
Does the photograph have a studio name and town on it? That might help too.
Regards,
Lars

 

[MoDog1]

Attached is a copy of a Knoetel Uniforkunde plate of Hessen Kassel Infantry uniforms in 1866 that includes a soldier from the Leib Guard Regiment. He is depicted wearing a white plume on his helmet and the cut of the collar and the cuffs seem to match those on the tunic in the photo.

 

[Lars13]

Very nice, seems to fit all the details. The Litzen on the collar look a bit different, but that might be due to slight changes over time (how wide are the Litzen, how visible is the line within the Litzen), or he might be wearing his own private purchase uniform (Eigentum) for the picture, that typically diverted somewhat from the regulations depending on the fashion at the time.
Coupled with the fact that he is from Hessen, I would say you found his regiment
Regards,
Lars

 

[Oldenburg]

Very nice, seems to fit all the details. The Litzen on the collar look a bit different, but that might be due to slight changes over time (how wide are the Litzen, how visible is the line within the Litzen), or he might be wearing his own private purchase uniform (Eigentum) for the picture, that typically diverted somewhat from the regulations depending on the fashion at the time.
Coupled with the fact that he is from Hessen, I would say you found his regiment
Regards,
Lars

I agree

 

[Lars13]

The Litzen on the collar look a bit different

Found a picture on Flickr of the Hessian Leibgarde regiment with the same type of Litzen as visible in your photo, according to the caption before conforming to the Prussian style of Litzen. Not sure why that photo was taken in München though......

 

[srussell912]

This is all amazing information, thank you so much for all your help! I told my dad and he is beside himself with excitement and I'm looking forward to diving more into Prussian history! I will definitely update if we find out more about him.

 

[srussell912]

It looks like a Model 1842 from Mecklenburg-Schwerin, but the timing wouldn't make sense...

Later wappens I have seen don't have the full burst like this one. Maybe there is someone who knows older models better.

Great photo!

Thank you!!

 

[srussell912]

The Schwerin star is different, shaped like a sun, with regular, rounded rays. Here we have a Prussian Guard star typ. It could possibly be the Strelitz, but it's quite different. The white Haarbusch could be an indication. Before unification in 1867, several states had such a star on their foreheads : Hanover, Oldenburg, Lippe-Detmold, etc...
It would be really interesting to be able to read the monogram or the central currency. It's also a pity that you can't see the Landkokarde, hidden behind the hair on the Busch.

Wow, it's really amazing how similar those look even with the blurriness! I'll have to look into those states too and see if there's any mention of them in notes we have.

 

[srussell912]

Pardon my attempt at sleuthing, but since your great grandfather was born somewhere in Hessen in 1838, it is likely he would have served in the army of one of the three independent Hessen states that existed prior to the war in 1866. To my knowledge, only one of these, the Electorate of Hessen Kassel had a regiment that wore a star on their pickelhaubes, and this was their Leib or Guard Regiment. Attached is a helmet listed in the November 2019 Hermann Historica Auction as an M1849 helmet for a bugler of the Guard Troops, whose star looks very much like the one in the photo. I hope this helps your quest.

Incredible, it definitely looks like the Leib/Guard Regiment! That would be very cool!

 

[srussell912]

Hi,
Not that knowledgeable on these early helmets but with some help from Kaiser's Bunker I think this is an M1842 or M1856/57 Pickelhaube. Born 1838 means he probably did his military service around 1858, fits with both models (the Germans were very thrifty, and used superseded models long after a new model was approved, if they didn't convert them).
Unfortunately I don't have any clothing regulations from that time (far before the period that I'm normally interested in), but there are quite a lot of details visible on the photograph apart from the Pickelhaube with its Wappen and white plume: dark uniform with buttons down the middle, special "Litzen" on collar and cuffs, and light-coloured shoulder straps. The combination of all these details should narrow down which regiments he could have belonged to.
Does the photograph have a studio name and town on it? That might help too.
Regards,
Lars

Thank you, I'll have to look into the uniform as well! Unfortunately the photo is from an article about his murder, and the caption isn't helpful!

 

[srussell912]

Attached is a copy of a Knoetel Uniforkunde plate of Hessen Kassel Infantry uniforms in 1866 that includes a soldier from the Leib Guard Regiment. He is depicted wearing a white plume on his helmet and the cut of the collar and the cuffs seem to match those on the tunic in the photo.

Wow, this really does look like it! Thank you so much!

 

[srussell912]

Very nice, seems to fit all the details. The Litzen on the collar look a bit different, but that might be due to slight changes over time (how wide are the Litzen, how visible is the line within the Litzen), or he might be wearing his own private purchase uniform (Eigentum) for the picture, that typically diverted somewhat from the regulations depending on the fashion at the time.
Coupled with the fact that he is from Hessen, I would say you found his regiment
Regards,
Lars

Yes, thank you, this has been incredibly helpful!

 

[srussell912]

Found a picture on Flickr of the Hessian Leibgarde regiment with the same type of Litzen as visible in your photo, according to the caption before conforming to the Prussian style of Litzen. Not sure why that photo was taken in München though......

This is so amazing, the uniform looks so similar!

 

[b.loree]

I think that our experts here have definitely nailed it. This is another example of how our hobby and forum can even help non collectors!

 

[srussell912]

I think that our experts here have definitely nailed it. This is another example of how our hobby and forum can even help non collectors!

Yes, absolutely!!