Pickelhaube Project

R

richesz28

Member
Hi all,

I recently purchased this one on Ebay. It needs virtually everything so I think it will take a couple of years to complete(if I'm lucky). The shell is in decent condition (it looks much better in person) with solid stiching and a complete, although very thin liner. I have several questions and hope some of you will chime in with information. So here goes:

1) The regimental marking is very worn but it closely resembles the yellow BA VIII marking found in the regimental markings post. If so, what unit(s) could it be from?

2) The holes for the Wappen are about 80mm apart. This seems wide and I need to know the dimensions of a Wappen for this spacing.

3) The front visor and trim, which appears to be german silver, are not issue items. Could this helmet be a Mannschaften Eigentums-helm? If it is then why would it have a regimental marking?

4) Since the visor trim is german silver, can I assume the other trim, such as the spike, rear spine, etc., will also be silver? Also, M91 side posts or chinscales? I'm pretty sure it should be side posts, which I already have, but it never hurts to ask.

Any information will be most appreciated. Thanks.

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Looks like a Baden helmet from the wappen imprint on the leather. Its definitely a Mannschaften helmet, with the liner and markings and quality, no mistaking that. Possibly a Pionier Pickelhaube with the silver visor trim.

What is the date on the helmet? looks like 1916, if so then it should have grey fittings.

could of been something like this....

http://www.pickelhaubes.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1975&view=previous" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Thanks for the input, I will take a closer look at the wappen imprint tonight. I considered Baden as a possibility but didn't want to get my hopes up. By the way, beautiful helmet, I can only hope to have one as nice one day. But, I do what I can on my small budget. :)
 
1) The regimental marking is very worn but it closely resembles the yellow BA VIII marking found in the regimental markings post. If so, what unit(s) could it be from?
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It does look like this one.
baviii_2.jpg


That is the only good news. This marks the Army Corps but not to unit. And that specific Army Corps provided support to a bunch of odd little entities.
VIII Corps in Coblenz seems to have picked up much of the slack in the missing BKAs. They did parts of XVIII Corps, parts of XXI Corps and assorted other units like the NCO school.
Click to expand...

It also looks like the front visor might be of a different material???
 
I agree about the front visor being different; however, there is no sign of it being restiched and externally it matches the rest of the helmet. I'm a little confused about that part. :?

If it is a replacement for some reason, such as a previously damaged visor, then it was very well done.
 
Okay, I just took a closer look at the visors and stitching. The front visor is original to the helmet. The rear visor, however, is not. The stitching is completely different and remnants of the old stitches remain visible. I will probably never know when or why it was replaced but it may answer some of my questions. I'm pretty certain that the fittings should be silver and I think a Baden wappen is a real possibility. Any thoughts?
 
I don't know much about this project. The trim looks silver to me which could mean a pioneer helmet and yes everything would be silver. Chris said Baden and I would have no reason to question that. On the off chance that it is not silver. One way you could check is to see if the trim is magnetic. In which case that would indicate steel.
 
Joe,

Yes it's silver. It's non magnetic and there is some verdigras on the brads connecting the visor trim. It's a brand new project and I'm just getting started. At first I thought it was a steel visor and might be an M15, which I have most of the parts to finish, but it looks like this will be a much longer and challenging one to complete. I plan on using all original parts because I really don't like mixing in reproduction pieces (although the silver chin scales and Baden Kokarde may be the exceptions). I know in the end this will still be a "parts helmet" but since I won't ever sell it that doesn't bother me. I like searching for parts and it gives me a good reason to go to shows and such. :D

You probably don't remember me, but I met you, Gus, and a few others at the SOS 3-4 years ago. We talked about old cars and geology of all things. I also purchased your book that day and it has been invaluable to me. Thanks. :thumb up:
 
You probably don't remember me, but I met you, Gus, and a few others at the SOS 3-4 years ago. We talked about old cars and geology of all things. I also purchased your book that day and it has been invaluable to me. Thanks.
Click to expand...

No I don't remember the conversation but if I was talking about geology I must have been on a roll! We will be at SOS again this year. The 3 of us and the dog. come on down they are supposed to expand it this year. There is also talk that maybe the Imperial guys might be co-located like we were so many years ago when Mark Avery squared us up! old cars and rocks have been replaced by old dogs and rocks in my brain!
 
richesz28 said:
I plan on using all original parts because I really don't like mixing in reproduction pieces (although the silver chin scales and Baden Kokarde may be the exceptions).
Click to expand...

Reproduction or original, the chin scales should be brass or "gold", not silver. that is if it is a pioneer helmet.

original Baden Kokarden come around every once in a while on Ebay.fr but the chin scales will take a bit longer.
 
I've made a little progress on my "project" and I have a couple of questions. I believe that brass chinscales with nickel plated rosettes would be correct because there are no additional holes for the extra prongs on the M91 side posts (the ones that keep the post from rotating).

What does the interior look like with split brad rosettes? Are there washers like the M91 posts for added support? A picture would be very helpful if anyone has a moment to snap one. I have nickel plated M91 side posts but I don't want to punch holes in the shell.

Also, if anyone's interested...I have been very lucky in locating original parts for this helmet. So far I have a replacement rear visor that matches the front visor, nickel plated rear spine, domed brads for the spike, interior mounting plate for the spike, Baden pioneer wappen, and brass grommets for the wappen holes. Still looking for a spitze. I also need cockades but I would like to verify the rosette vs side post question first.

I appreciate anyone's input. Thanks.
 
If the rear visor isn't original and you replace the rear visor, then the markings you're using as a reference for the origin of this helmet are gone, right? I wonder if there are any holes in the shell by the ends of the visor / neck guard for domed brads, as would be present if there was a rear visor trim, which are covered right now. To me, this looks like a Beamte helmet, with a script type letter for a front plate (?) Of course, if it matches a Baden plate, then that's good. Are there any other plate imprints? Just wondering.

:D Ron
 
Hi Ron,

Thanks for replying. Actually the rear visor and its markings are the incorrect part of the helmet. The thickness of the leather and the stitching don't match the helmet body or front visor. And since the rear visor was previously replaced, its depot mark led me down the wrong path in the beginning. Unfortunately, there are no other markings. The wappen outline and the nickel plated front visor trim are the clues I'm working with right now.

I was lucky and located a rear visor with the same "corrugated ?" appearance as the front visor. I've looked at a variety of photos of similar visors and think this one is a very good match. Also, it is unmarked and the patina of the outside matches the rest of the helmet too. There are no hidden holes under the rear visor for domed brads so I don't believe a rear visor trim piece was ever present. I'm working on stitching this replacement for the replacement visor. :-?

As far as the wappen, the imprint of both wings and the head of the Griffin are visible (at least to me). I am awaiting the arrival of a Baden wappen in the mail. It should be obvious whether or not its correct as soon as I try it on the helmet. I'll post some pics after I get a little further along.

On a side note. I did a student exchange in Freiburg about 30 years ago and have fond memories of that region. So I have spent some time refreshing my memory on Baden as well as researching pioneer units. I've learned quite a lot since purchasing this helmet and I'm really having a lot of fun with it so whether it turns out to be a Baden, Beamte, or something else entirely I'm happy with it. (I really do hope it's a Baden one though :D ) This is supposed to be fun, right? :)

I could still use an opinion on the M91 side post versus rosette issue or anything else someone notices. As always, thanks for the input.
 
Great! Sounds like you're on the right track. I restitched a visor once, used a fine needle and even a small drill in a hand 'vice' (not a power drill) to clean the holes before applying the needle. It worked pretty well. The tough part is to get the visor tight without breaking the old leather.

:D Ron
 
I know what you mean. I spent several hours cleaning out the old thread. Tedious to say the least. Good news on the wappen. It arrived today in the mail and matches the imprint(s) exactly. Definitely a Baden helmet. :D
 
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