Preußen Mannschafte Tschako M1915 - Help!

RON

RON

Well-known member
Howdy all,
This Shako is dated 1916 and looks like a very sound M1915 to me. Too sound maybe, especially that Prussian Cockade? Although Tony S. has a similarly well-preserved one on his site... :?
It is missing one leather attachment tab to the 'plate' (quoting seller: I guess he means the eagle?).
The strap and cockade are both original according to him.
Yes, it is a small size (54) and the Reich cockade is missing but I guess it wouldn't be hard to find.
What do you think?
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There is no "Cockade" on the Tschako.The wooly black & white "thing" is the Feldzeichen (or "National").

Francis
 
You're right, my bad. I refer to all as cockade but what do you think about the shako authenticity-wise?
 
RON said:
Howdy all,
This Shako is dated 1916 and looks like a very sound M1915 to me. Too sound maybe, especially that Prussian Cockade? Although Tony S. has a similarly well-preserved one on his site... :?
Click to expand...

Not with a Feldzeichen like that. The Easter bunny has less fuzz.

Francis the liner is typical wartime in my opinion. Chinstrap and the fuzzy-bunny though... :sad8:
 
The chinstrap and the feldzeichen are copy.

The tschako looks very good to me.
Can you tell us the price ?.
Above 600 $ forget it, it's too high.
Because due to the "war bond helmet" mint tschako are not rare in the US.
Lucky guys...

:-P
 
It's too expensive indeed. The guy is asking for $795 before shipping and handling. It would've been the perfect catch had it all been authentic (as he actually claims).
 
Genuine Tschako in excellent to outstanding condition. Typical beige leather liner.
The chinstrap and Feldzeichen appear to be copies.
Price too high though...
Well it seems I just confirmed what you guys wrote...
Bruno
 
Thank you Bruno, you do sum it pretty well :)
I'll try and convince the seller to lower his price based on what you've all agreed on but I wonder how I would ever find a good near mint chinstrap & Reichs Cockade to match the helmet, not to mention the Feldzeichen (fuzzy bunny)...
I wish those helmets would stop being dismantled and sold incomplete or with copy parts! It's like buying a nice vintage Harley without its engine or with a missing tire...
How low do you think the price should go (I'd still need to export it from the US to Canada)?
 
Don't. You will have to buy a Pickelhaube to get the chinstrap, then sell the Pickelhaube without the strap, and then you will drive yourself near insane trying to find an original Feldzeichen.

Wait for a complete one.
 
Tony is right, unless it is a real bargin, but this one is at the high end. The only reason for buying one like this is if you already have a damaged one that has the parts you need.
Best
Gus
 
You guys are right, I guess I'm gonna have to pass on this one too... but it is such an outstanding 'shell'... Too bad!
 
Indeed it is! Apart from the chinstrap, it looks mint/unused.
Another US War Bond helmet? (you guys are so lucky that some military genius thought about doing this back then for the future generations of collectors!!)
 
I am no pickelhaube expert and am happy (?) to be shot down in flames, but I’ll disagree with the experts here. I think the entire thing is ok. The overall look, patina, whatever you want to call it is the same on all parts. If we all agree the mint shako and liner are ok, then it’s also ok for the Feldzeichen and strap to be mint, so condition is not an issue.

Compare the sheen on the chinstrap with that on the leather behind the strap lugs. They look identical. The strap has stiffened, I think due to age, and has “taken” one or two bends, and has bits of surface wear that don’t look contrived to me. I like the roughness of the interior where I can see it. The buckles appear the same shape and thickness as on the example below.

As for the Feldzeichen, I can’t comment on its construction, but looking at the metal insert I see that it’s shiny where the japanning has rubbed off , except near the top, where it has oxidised in the only place that would have been exposed to the air over 90 years. If that is faked, it has been astonishingly skilfully done.

I will stick my neck out and say I think this is a superb, 100% correct example. If someone can show why I’m wrong, I’m always willing to learn. Let me add that I have no connection with the shako and have no idea who is selling it.
 
Not a problem. The Feldzeichen should be made from a very tight-weave wool, or in wartime, sometimes cloth. But never a fuzzy Wal-Mart white felt. The inner colour is sewn into the fabric front from the back, so it is not visible when it is flipped over the wooden plug. The one that started this thread looks absolutely nothing like an original (posted by Bruno).

Chinstraps, especially wartime ones, are often paper thin. A fat, thick chinstrap often indicates it is new, or was cut from a leather belt or something, often to replace the rotted strap using the original fittings. However, I have seen some stone-mint original straps on bond helmets, but this one shows zero age. Zip. On the plus side, the fittings are the correct shape, which they rarely get right on fakes.
 
I share all the concerns mentioned above. One thing about the strap which says repro to me is the fact I have only seen that thickness of leather used on modern reproductions and two, see how the strap bulges out round its M91 end fittings next to the helmet. To me, that always means repro. It does this because, the strap has not "been there" it has not been stretched over a sweaty face/chin and it has not been on the helmet for 100 years. By the way.... of the 3 bond helmets that I have owned, none came with an original chin strap. I also would like to start a new thread on the pickelhaubes discussion area dealing with original leather chin straps. Lets post some repros also so we can see what to look for. I will try to get this started over the weekend or someone else, go ahead and do it.
 
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