Prussian Felt with Interesting Features

[planzero]

This is my only felt, but I thought it was worth noting because of the combination of features not often seen together. I am by no means an expert on felts, I just researched many images here and on the interweb.
It has a rolled edge along with side reinforcement panels like a leather helmet, whereas most rolled edges I've seen do not have this combination, and most felts with side panels don't have a rolled edge. I personally love felts with the classic "pickelhaube" look vs the "bowler hat" look.
It still retains it's original cardboard spike washer, which I don't think is common in a felt. Andy's cardboard helmet has one, and I've only found one felt online that has the shadow of where a washer once was.
The wappen is held in place by two large hair pins which are actually quite ingenious considering it dissipates the pressure from the mounting holes. I've seen them before , somewhere, I just can't remember on what type of headgear.
No liner just some glue residue (I think), and what I assume is an indecipherable owner's name.
Basically it's a felt with reinforcement features.
It arrived to me somewhat squashed so I've been slowly reshaping it with a soft foam block and it's definitely looking better than before. I actually prefer how it looks sans cockades and chinstrap, I think it highlights the sides and wappen, which still has that beautiful frosty glow when the light hits it from underneath.

 

[pickelhauben]

The paper type spike base is new to me.
The wire loop attachments are post war.
I like it as well.
The side post reinforcing strips are not typical.

 

[Andy be Prussian]

A very interesting felt variant. I haven’t seen either the tabs on rolled edged felts or even this cardboard washer on the bottom of the spike base. I also really like the tan color in this. Thanks for sharing

 

[planzero]

No offense, I'm just wondering if you have a factual reason why you say the pins are post war? Obviously that was my first guess before I examined closely and discovered a few things, considering the other "reinforcement" features.

Besides being the exact same dull patina as the surrounding loop (it's not easy to match brass patinas), they're attached in a way that is very precise and they're quite stiff but cause no damage or push through, and as you know in felt helmets this was a weak spot and often the metal loop hole is pulled away from the felt when attached with a leather wedge. To randomly add this post-war instead of simple leather wedges seems odd to me.
However the main reason for thinking they may be original is the only exact example I found of an identical pin, with the same flexibility and distinct looped shape, was as a hair pin, which along with hat pins were often distributed by hat makers, who also made the felt helmets. It just seems a bit too coincidental.
This is definitely not a regular cotter pin..
This is my opinion, but if there's evidence to the contrary I'm open to learning. Thanks!

 

[b.loree]

Lots of unique features which I have never seen before....very interesting! Thanks for showing us this piece.

 

[ussguppy]

I've never seen quite that color, but it appears okay and I rather like it.

 

[planzero]

Thanks to everyone, Gabe I just realized one of the only other rolled edge with side panels I've seen is the one you sold a couple years ago, although the visor has trim.

 

[ussguppy]

Thanks to everyone, Gabe I just realized one of the only other rolled edge with side panels I've seen is the one you sold a couple years ago, although the visor has trim.

Haha, I guess maybe I have seen it before. I totally forgot about that one!

Gabe

 

[Rkinkade]

I have a felt Bavarian with rolled edge and reinforced sides. I also have a black shellac coated Prussian felt with rolled edges and reinforced sides. I wonder if my Bavarian and your example were destined to be black shellac coated and are transitional variants? In 45 years of collecting haubes, I have never seen the cardboard washer plate. Interesting.

 

[pickelhauben]

The loops on the plate almost always were attached to the helmet with leather wedges.
These wedges actually helped pad the loops with addition of the liner against the wearer's forehead.
These metal wire pins would actually press against the wearer's forehead.
So without a doubt they are post war.

 

[planzero]

In my relatively short time researching these online, I stumbled upon this sold example from Griffin militaria archives which appears to have a shadow of a washer. This is the only example I've found.

 

[planzero]

I understand your theory, however there are a couple points that need addressing.
Unless you have a massive forehead, a liner should have prevented the wearers head from actually touching this part, as all types of haubes sit high on the head, or they wouldn't have been designed this way and would have attached the wappen with the French method. Officers would all have two post holes in their foreheads otherwise, and since the wedges are behind the loops they would still dig into the flesh regardless of attachment method. But that would only be on a very large pickelhaube or a very small head and/or giant forehead.
In fact, this helmet fits on my head in a proper fashion without the liner and the pins don't come near my forehead.
The liner band would have stopped below these hair pins and the liner itself would have allowed space for these or the helmet wouldn't have fit properly.
Lastly, as I mentioned earlier, why on earth would someone choose to use antique hair pins to replace simple leather wedges in the first place? Milliners and hatters would.
Respectfully still not convinced.

 

[Rkinkade]

On the Griffin Militaria example, I believe the washer “ghost” was likely from a standard black metal washer plate, placed on the wrong side as we commonly see. I was skeptical about the cardboard washer being original, but it appears that the bottom outer edge of your spike base has a sharp edge, rather than being rolled and crimped under as is typical? This could explain the concern of the edge cutting the felt and the need for protection. My vote is that the hair pins are likely not factory original. They could well be from the era. I have purchased many barn find haubes with every conceivable retaining device imaginable; nails, wire, string, bobbi hair pins, match sticks, etc.. That’s the great thing about this forum; if someone has seen a similar example to yours, hopefully we will hear of it.

 

[planzero]

I appreciate all the feedback and interest!
To clarify, the Griffin helmet above has a regular inside washer like mine. Also if you look closely at the pic there's a small remnant of something that resembles paper or cardboard at about 1100, but it's hard to tell for sure.
I just can't imagine why they would put a metal washer on top of felt in the first place considering the material, but anything is possible. Have you actually seen the metal washer on top of a felt or only on cardboard and leather helmets?
This spike base is definitely rolled like any other base. No sharp edge. The washer looks as old as the helmet and again, why would it be added later? It's exactly the same size as the metal inside, leading me to believe it was added to reinforce and protect the felt from the metal edge underneath. I assumed they would be torn off or get wet quickly.
I can only imagine the fasteners you've seen especially in uncared for helmets. These pins are definitely of the period and as old as the surrounding loops. I just think it's very ironic that these type of hair pins were used on a helmet specifically made by a hat maker. Not just a random Bobby pin on a leather bring back or Liberty bond helmet. In this case they're actually beneficial to the felt, where the mounting hole rings (?) are often seen pulled away from the body when the wappen gets smashed. They're acting as reinforced connections and much more secure compared to the leather wedge, which always amazes me in it's crudeness compared to other methods .
I have a weird tendency to stumble upon unusual specimens, and everytime I learn something new. I'll be posting some rare swords soon. I am very familiar with all things antique, aging and fakery. I am convinced this felt is all period original after examining it with a fine tooth comb for the last year and considering the features and condition. I'm sure any of you would think the same if you held it and examined it, no matter what your preconceptions may be. No one has to agree with me, I just wanted to show you what I have. Just because we never saw it before doesn't mean it doesn't exist, especially in the world of wartime productions. There is still a plethora of unknown and inaccurate information out there regarding all things ersatz.
I guarantee more will pop up, there is relatively little official information in the first place and the "great militaria transfer" is just getting started with tons of hidden collections and bring backs large and small are popping up in random estate auctions and online resellers and inheritors who don't even know what they're selling or misidentify everything. My helmet was squashed and listed as an Austrian with the blurriest pictures imaginable.
It just takes the right person to join a forum and share it instead of posting an image on Pinterest.