Prussian Imperial Colonial M1910 Schirmmütze?

RON

RON

Well-known member
Hello everyone,
I've seen Kaiserliches Schutztruppe colonial headgear before--a dream to own but always overpriced--but never a Prussian cap such as this one (with both the Reichs & Prussian cockades)... Seems these were used in East Africa and Macedonia?
The inside looks to have an Ersatz sweatband.
Do you think it's a legit Prussian Colonial EM/NCO M1910 Schirmmütze?
GermanImperialColonialNCOSchirmmtzeM1910a.jpg
GermanImperialColonialNCOSchirmmtzeM1910b.jpg

GermanImperialColonialNCOSchirmmtzeM1910c.jpg
GermanImperialColonialNCOSchirmmtzeM1910d.jpg
 
Great find! At first glance I'd guess officer's cap made for use in Palestine or other parts of the Ottoman Empire c1916-18, artillery or pioneers...

I'd be curious to hear other opinions though...

Cheers
Chris
 
Hey Chris,
These are EM/OR cockades on so it's most probably for an Enlisted Man or maybe an NCO.
According to description, it seems these were used in East Africa and Macedonia...
 
Very good point Ron on the cockades! It was the hatband looking velvet that made me think officer and the inscription inside looking like private purchase.

I doubt if its East Africa. The Prussian cockade makes it from the Prussian army surely and aside from the odd officer seconded here and there the army didn't serve in Africa. The Schutztruppe who did serve in Africa did not use state cockades...

Cheers
Chris
 
Well this is what dazzles me Chris as I was under the impression all German military serving outside the boundaries of mainland Germany after the unification were to wear only the Reichs cockade (e.g. Schutztruppe, Kaiserliches Seebataillon, etc.).
Are there any period photos out there showing similar Prussian Colonial headgear?
 
Hi Ron,

Yes mostly... as you say, the Schutztruppe and Seebatallione only wore Imperial cockades, as did the Colonial Polizeitruppe and the East Asians from Feb 1901.

But members of the Prussian (and Bavarian, Saxon etc) armies serving overseas still wore their state cockades. This included units in tropical uniforms in Palestine, Macedonia and Georgia during the war, East Asians before Feb 1901 and individuals on secondment to the colonies and overseas.

Here's an East Asian in 1900 with state cockade-
http://www.soldiersofthequeen.com/page15m-PrivateOstasiatischeExpeditionskorps1900.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There weren't many of these army officers individually posted overseas but a few were posted to train the Polizeitruppe in colonies without Schutztruppe- New Guinea and Togo. Some army officers were posted to other colonies and some served as observers in tropical wars such as the Spanish American War. There's a photo of one here-
http://www.soldiersofthequeen.com/page15bb-MilitaryAttachesCuba1898.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Caps such as the one in this thread, in khaki, with arm of service colours and state cockades were not (as far as I know) ever authorised. But as we keep seeing unofficial variations were common.

Cheers
Chris
 
Thanks for sharing those pics Chris; beautiful!

One of these days I'm gonna get me a decent Kaiserliches Schutztruppe Ostasiatischen Tropenhelm and take it with me to my grave... The problem is these sell for no less than $3,000 a piece nowadays and that's if you're lucky...
 
Hi Ronny,

Don't confuse Schutztruppe (Africa) with Ostasiatische (China) or we'll all be in trouble!

I'll let you guys know next time I see one for sale. I don't collect myself but people do sometimes offer me stuff through my website. I posted photos of some bits I was offered here at the forum before, but thought better of it after some of the more knowledgeable people here saw faults in them. I don't want to look like I'm pushing items that I can't guarantee and aren't mine. See the "Updates" section of my website at http://www.germancolonialuniforms.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for what's been offered in the past.

I noticed in photos of Gen von Lettow-Vorbeck's funeral that his Suedwester hat was on the coffin, so he nearly took it to the grave with him but I bet someone retrieved it before throwing the dirt on top!

Cheers
Chris
 
Sorry for the confusion Chris; I'm still a novice here and German 'territorial' Imperial militaria is already complicated by itself, let alone the colonial 'stuff'... But just so you know, this is how they refer to the colonial tropenhelm on Weitze:
Kaiserliches Schutztruppe, Tropenhelm mit aufstellbarem Nackenschirm für Mannschaft der Ostasiatischen Besatzungsbrigade
[https://www.weitze.net/detail/34/Kaiserliches_Schutztruppe_Tropenhelm_mit_aufstellbarem_Nackenschirm_fuer_Mannschaft_der_Ostasiatischen_Besatzungsbrigade__107134_e.html]

Re. the Gl.'s funeral, I would've personally undug him just to get my hands on that helmet... Ooops, did I say that out loud?! :oops:

Anyway, if there's ever a good Tropenhelm you happen to know of out there for a decent price, please do let us know.
 
I hate to say anyone's is wrong but I think Herr Weitze has mislabelled it. The Schutztruppe were the colonial troops in East Africa, South West Africa and Cameroon, quite separate from the East Asians. He's probably mislabelled it deliberately to get folk like me who regularly type Schutztruppe into Google to pick it up knowing we'd be interested in the East Asians too. If I'm going to be really picky I'd say it was a 1902 model not 1900. I think Bortfieldt only added the folding rear peak in 1902... though I could be mistaken here...

Cheers
Chris
 
I'm pretty sure you're right Chris; those sites are never 100% reliable as they only think $$$ or in this case €€€...

To sum-up, the Schutztruppe served in: East Africa, South West Africa and Cameroon
The Colonial Polizeitruppe in: Togo & New Guinea

What about the Seebatallione, where did these serve when not out at sea?
And did any of the above serve in Eastern Europe and the Middle-East--in Ottoman-occupied territory--apart from 'regular mainland' German army?
 
Ron: You should invest in this book, The German Colonial Troops from 1889 to 1918 History - Uniforms - Equipment by Jurgen Kraus and Thomas Muller, published by Verlag Militaria, Vienna, Austria. ISBN 978-3-902526-25-0 {English edition}

Reservist1
 
RON said:
To sum-up, the Schutztruppe served in: East Africa, South West Africa and Cameroon
The Colonial Polizeitruppe in: Togo & New Guinea
Click to expand...
Correct, Samoa also had some Polizeitruppe, so did East Africa and Cameroon. South West had Landespolizei.

RON said:
What about the Seebatallione, where did these serve when not out at sea?
Click to expand...

They were not used at sea, at least not from the 1880s... they were based at Kiel (I. SB) and Wilhelmshavn (II. SB)... with the III. SB at Tsingtao. When needed they could be shipped out to deal with rebellions in Africa. See my article at http://www.sacktrick.com/igu/germancolonialuniforms/hist%20seebatallion.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; or the better German site http://www.marine-infanterie.de/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RON said:
And did any of the above serve in Eastern Europe and the Middle-East--in Ottoman-occupied territory--apart from 'regular mainland' German army?
Click to expand...

No. That was the regualr mainland army, or detachments thereof.... oh, except for the small Marine Detachment Skutari (less than 100 Seebatallion troops in Albania 1913-14).

Confused? You will be!

Cheers
Chris
 
Chris, colonization and the rush to secure raw material by the Europeans at the turn of the 20th Century has always been a fascinating era to me too ever since I learned about it in highschool around the age of 13. I've just been too lazy to read about it again... So I'm starting by saving your notes onto my PC and will delve into your article asap.

And speaking of German colonies, here's a bloc of 4 Deutsch East Africa stamps which were listed for $4,999 as starting price on eBay sometime ago! I had to save the photos as this would've been the closest I'd ever get to these:
Tanganyika-MafiaIsland-1915a.jpg

Tanganyika-MafiaIsland-1915b.jpg


I'm also a stamp collector and I've been able to stir away from German Imperial Colonial stamps thus far as, same for the militaria, they're among the most expensive in the world yet so darn gorgeous!
 
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