Nice looking 8th, congrats!
Prussian JZP M1915 EM Metalhelme
- Thread starter RON
- Start date
Maple Creek
Member
Thanks. It was a lucky find. I've been debating whether to try to clean it because I think it would buff up nicely, but I decided to leave it as is.
badener said:
Vergeldt
New member
Both are great looking helmets, but I honestly like that steel/iron one more but, that's just my steelworker brain 
.
What i think is totally crazy is that these helmets were still being produced and issued in 1916 and onward, as the functional value of these kind of helmets were reduced to a minimum in the first months of the war.
Yes they were made of iron and steel but a but thin. and the shape and wearing comfort, in a battle as fought in the first world war would make it quite clunky.
guess that's why they invented the M16.
but still great pieces and i would keep them the way they were, clening them makes them lose their "authentic" feel if you ask me though maybe the leather could use some love .
cheers,
.What i think is totally crazy is that these helmets were still being produced and issued in 1916 and onward, as the functional value of these kind of helmets were reduced to a minimum in the first months of the war.
Yes they were made of iron and steel but a but thin. and the shape and wearing comfort, in a battle as fought in the first world war would make it quite clunky.
guess that's why they invented the M16
. but still great pieces and i would keep them the way they were, clening them makes them lose their "authentic" feel if you ask me though maybe the leather could use some love .
cheers,
RON
Well-known member
Hi, great pics! Would you consider swapping cockades?
This looks to me like a regular M15 EM that has been painted in green at some point in its life. It is close to the all green Ersatz Prussian Kürassier EM Metalhelme I've seen on this Forum only the fittings look 'normal' instead of molded with the shell... Did late-war regulations impose the painting of cavalry helmets into green like the stahlhelms? Didn't cavalrymen simply switch to the stahlhelm like the rest of the military?
This looks to me like a regular M15 EM that has been painted in green at some point in its life. It is close to the all green Ersatz Prussian Kürassier EM Metalhelme I've seen on this Forum only the fittings look 'normal' instead of molded with the shell... Did late-war regulations impose the painting of cavalry helmets into green like the stahlhelms? Didn't cavalrymen simply switch to the stahlhelm like the rest of the military?
RON said:
No. This is just a special Jäger zu Pferde Metalhelme. VERY cool! :thumbleft:
RON
Well-known member
So by 'special', do you mean some Ersatz variant?
And to make sure I browsed the correct historical sites, did mounted troops (Kurassiers, JZP mainly) switch to the Stahlhelm past 1916? Some also attribute the ear cut Stahlhelm to Cavalry (in addition to MG operators). Urban myth?
And to make sure I browsed the correct historical sites, did mounted troops (Kurassiers, JZP mainly) switch to the Stahlhelm past 1916? Some also attribute the ear cut Stahlhelm to Cavalry (in addition to MG operators). Urban myth?
RON said:
Ron, I mean "special" as in a "one off" (often wrongly pronounced one-of) that appears to be completely original. I would not consider a coat of paint to be Ersatz, but rather a local unit thing.
RON
Well-known member
Hello all. I finally got to manipulate my JZP helmet and although it's quite a beauty overall, it turned out to have a wrong/fake chinstrap! What annoys me the most--apart from the fact the seller is actually a member here (not very active though)--is that I thought I was getting a good deal when he agreed to replace the chinstrap that was originally on the helmet (see pics at beginning of thread) with the current one which he had on a Kürassier helmet and looked in much better condition, as discussed above.
It (the current chinstrap) turned out to have non-magnetic (brass) fittings but even worse, the loops are glued--instead of stitched--under the adjustment buckles... I should'nt have asked to swap straps and now the Kürassier metalhelme--a Lachmann with the wrong (JZP) spike otherwise I would've bought it too--is long gone with my original strap!!
Here's a few photos including closeups of the wrong/fake chinstrap. I've also added a shot at the end with the strap that came on my Prussian Guard Inf. Pickelhaube that looks like a genuine all-steel M15 Cavalry/Metalhelme chinstrap as discussed in my other thread... Although this technically solves my issue here, I would still need to find an original Infantry M15 strap for my Guard haube... ](*,)
It (the current chinstrap) turned out to have non-magnetic (brass) fittings but even worse, the loops are glued--instead of stitched--under the adjustment buckles... I should'nt have asked to swap straps and now the Kürassier metalhelme--a Lachmann with the wrong (JZP) spike otherwise I would've bought it too--is long gone with my original strap!!
Here's a few photos including closeups of the wrong/fake chinstrap. I've also added a shot at the end with the strap that came on my Prussian Guard Inf. Pickelhaube that looks like a genuine all-steel M15 Cavalry/Metalhelme chinstrap as discussed in my other thread... Although this technically solves my issue here, I would still need to find an original Infantry M15 strap for my Guard haube... ](*,)
argonne
Well-known member
Hey Ron, this chinstrap must not be a fake. It only seems to be pretty short and would never fit under the chin of the wearer. I think the strap was broken or maybe brittle and it has been cut back on both sides and then glued :-x
Look at the rough leather surfaces on both side of chinstrap right below the fixations on M 91 side posts (first and second pict). That´s the place where the chinstrap originally made the curve in the strap fixations....On the 5th pict you can also easily make out where the buckles originally sat (more in the middle).
Before I buy a new haube, I personally always take care that both chinstrap buckles always sit side by side and centered at the front of the helmet. Then you can be sure that the strap still has its original length to the helmet where it is sitting on. Always remember that the chinstrap must be long enough to sit under the wearers chin!!! Buckles that are far away from each other on the strap while sitting below the wappen is most of time a sign that the chinstrap has been shortened or is not original to helmet!!!
Philippe :salute:
Look at the rough leather surfaces on both side of chinstrap right below the fixations on M 91 side posts (first and second pict). That´s the place where the chinstrap originally made the curve in the strap fixations....On the 5th pict you can also easily make out where the buckles originally sat (more in the middle).
Before I buy a new haube, I personally always take care that both chinstrap buckles always sit side by side and centered at the front of the helmet. Then you can be sure that the strap still has its original length to the helmet where it is sitting on. Always remember that the chinstrap must be long enough to sit under the wearers chin!!! Buckles that are far away from each other on the strap while sitting below the wappen is most of time a sign that the chinstrap has been shortened or is not original to helmet!!!
Philippe :salute:
RON
Well-known member
Hey Philippe, you're right, this strap was definitely shortened. Under one adjustment buckle, there's also evidence of stitches having been removed as you can still see the sewing holes (see extra close-up added hereafter).
This scenario is much better than having a complete fake but still, the metal fittings aren't the correct wartime (magnetic oxidized grey) type--they look like darkened brass--and I would've definitely kept the original chinstrap on at the time of purchase had the seller been 'kind' enough to warn me!! :-x
I will display my JZP helmet with the strap from my Guard Infantry haube as it sits perfectly on it as shown in the last photo above.
This scenario is much better than having a complete fake but still, the metal fittings aren't the correct wartime (magnetic oxidized grey) type--they look like darkened brass--and I would've definitely kept the original chinstrap on at the time of purchase had the seller been 'kind' enough to warn me!! :-x
I will display my JZP helmet with the strap from my Guard Infantry haube as it sits perfectly on it as shown in the last photo above.
RON
Well-known member
As passionate collectors, I think we all agree that there's nothing better than completing/upgrading one's find...
I recently got me this very nice pair of matching 6.5cm cavalry cockades that I couldn't wait to try on my JZP Metalhelme (see how these look next to regular/line cockades):
I recently got me this very nice pair of matching 6.5cm cavalry cockades that I couldn't wait to try on my JZP Metalhelme (see how these look next to regular/line cockades):
RON
Well-known member
While giving my helmet the occasional dusting, I took a closer look at what I first thought to be random scratches to the inner shell's lobster tail, right after the liner's rim. When looked at with the front visor up and the neck guard/lobster tail down, the mark indeed seemed like surface damage however, when looking at it the other way around, it looks like a hand-engraved 'Gosh'... Unless this is slang for 'God', I presume this could be the original owner's name? Does 'Gosh' sound like a German family name? [-o<
Here's a couple of closeups:
Here's a couple of closeups: