Prussian KIR 145 OR helmet with plume

J.LeBrasseur

J.LeBrasseur

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Picked up this wonderful helmet at the SOS in 2008, thought I would repost it. Well marked to Konigs Inf. Regt. 145.

This Regiment was authorized to wear this plate on June 16th 1913 to celebrate the Kaiser's 25th year of rule.

interesting helmet as it also has what appears to be 2 old German costume house stamps. Liner string is not correct, but it came that way.

With original plume and spike

James











 
James ;
Excellent .So I had written to Brian that my officers KIR 145 has the correct Garde eagle
without the star , but I had not seen a Kammer issue to KIR145 enlisted helmet with any front
plate other than a Grenadier eagle . Your post and photos are proof of that .
Did the 2008 seller know what he had ?
Thanks for the post and the photos
Steve McFarland
 
KAGGR#1 said:
Did the 2008 seller know what he had ?
Click to expand...

Nope the dealer did not, and to be honest, I was not sure what it was at the time either, but knew it was something different, I quickly found Randy Trawnik to come take a look, while we where looking at it the dealer said I will go as low as $700, I looked at Randy, he said if you do not buy it I will...

Enough said, after buying it Randy filled me on what it was.

I have learned much since then, but still find new things all the time when it comes to helmets.

James
 
KAGGR#1 said:
I had not seen a Kammer issue to KIR145 enlisted helmet with any front
plate other than a Grenadier eagle . Your post and photos are proof of that .
Click to expand...

KJR145 helmets wore a classic line eagle till September 1913.
Shortly before the war, they were allowed to wear the wide Grenadier eagle. Sometimes you still find some of those old KJR145 helmets with the classic prussian Wappen.




That´s the reason why most of the KJR145 new Grenadier eagles are showing their fixation loops at the back very close together. It was easier and quicker for the Kammer to solder the loops at the distance of a normal line eagle to fit the plate in the old holes instead of punching some new (wider) holes in the old shells and to refill the old holes. Exceptions: new helmets issued late 1913 and 1914.

This is the same for all other Grenadier units that ware allowed to wear the wide eagle pretty late, like the GR4 (May 1911), the GR5, 9, 10 and 12 (June 1913), the GR6 and 11 (August 1913). Before that, they wore the old Grenadier FWR eagle with loops at the back closer together.




So for the other 5 Grenadier units( GR1, 2, 3, 7 and 8 ), you will barely see loops at the back of the wide Grenadier plates which are close together, because those 5 units were allowed to wear this new eagle pretty soon (1897-1901).


Philippe
:wink:
 
I like these "new style" Grenadier plates.

Thanks for posting it James.

Philippe:

Thanks for the interesting background information.
 
Here is an example of an issue KIR 145 helmet made by Hermann Clemen. The helmet is dated 1905 and has been fitted with the spread wing grenadier front plate. In this instance the loops on the front plate have been moved inward to fit the original holes in the helmet body.View attachment 1

KIR 145a.jpg
 

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Very nice helmets gentlemen.
I just saw Weitze has one for sale too, in his weekly update of his site, which I check every week.
It has the small wappen, and is dated 1906.
https://www.weitze.net/militaria/96/Preussen_Pickelhaube_fuer_Mannschaften_im_Koenigs_Infanterie_Regiment_6_Lothringisches_Nr_145__300996.html

Greetings, Coert. :)
 
Hello Argonne ;
I did a poor job of my statement that I had never seen an enlisted helmet
for KIR 145 with any front plate other than a Grenadier eagle .What I trying to get across
was that the regulations call for a Garde Eagle without the star which is different from
the Grenadier eagle .If you see the post about my KIR 145 officers helmet you will see
it has a Garde Eagle without the star . But the enlisted helmets for KIR 145 that I have seen
all seem to have the Grenadier plates .I should have posted a question rather than a statement .
Does any member have a KIR 145 enlisted helmet in their collection that has a Garde Eagle
without the star on their helmet ?Or have they ever seen one ?
Another post will show that I have an enlisted mans helmet for KIR 145 Kammer issue 1906
with the regular Prussian line eagle .
Thank you for your post and your information
Steve McFarland
 
Hello reservist1 ;
First of all what a great helmet . Thanks for the post and the photos .Your helmet
clearly Kammer issue with the date 1905 .Now this brings up the question ; back in
the 1980's when I got my KIR 145 e m helmet from Kurt S. he told me that the regiment
got their new wide winged eagle front plate in 1905 . I respect Kurt as one of the most knowledgeable collectors of Imperial German Military . Your helmet would seem to prove that
to be correct .However James LaB had stated the eagle change was 1913 for the 25 year anniversary
of the rule of K W II .I think that one other member stated 1913 for the eagle change .
We have also seen a couple of other KIR 145 e m helmets with the date of 1906 and they still have the old eagle.
One of these is my helmet .Weitze site the other .We know the regiment was formed in 1890.
Reference shows the cypher was given to the epaulettes and shoulder straps on 27. 9. 1893
Another question posed by Brian L. is why this regiment was chosen as the "King's " regiment ?
Thanks
Steve McFarland
 
KAGGR#1 said:
Kurt S. he told me that the regiment
got their new wide winged eagle front plate in 1905 .
Click to expand...

Wrong, wrong, wrong...
Please read the "holy bible" of Pickelhauben, the Larcade Tome I, page 30.

About the name "King´s", please read here:

https://www.pickelhaubes.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=14301&p=96736#p96736

Similar to the KJR45, the FR86 was given the name "Königin" on the 09.09.1890. Why? I really do not know in this case...

Philippe
:wink:
 
reservist1 said:
Steve: It is my understanding that 1905 is the year KJR 145 was awarded a black parade bush.

Regards,

Reservist1
Click to expand...

No, the date of the AKO was 18.10.1895. KJR145 "König" and FR86 "Königin" were allowed to wear the black Haarbusch at this date!

Philippe :wink:
 
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