Prussian pickelhaube - officer or not ?

F

Frozzer

Member
Hi

I got this nice attic find pickelhaube. It came with Uberzug, small moth cocoons on it, still dirt - all photos before cleaning.
I am new to pickelhaubes and Im wonder - this is an officer variant or not ?
Spike is high with pearls around, all brass items has gold wash, but interrior looks like to be EM helmet, with regiments markings.

please help.

Regards
Michal
 
I can see why you're confused. The helmet all seems to go together well, but it's not an officer helmet. It's possible that a soldier had this issued to him and upgraded it as he was promoted from the ranks to NCO, at which time he purchased the better spike, chinscales and cockades. The eagle is an enlisted type as is the helmet shell. The uberzug looks unused and may not be original to the helmet. On the other hand, it might be a parts helmet, in spite of the fact that it seems to fit together perfectly. If somebody put it together in the 1960's, it would look evenly aged today... so it's very difficult to say with this one.

I'm sure folks who know more than I will comment. Did you look up the regimental marks to be sure the plate is correct? I'll leave that up to you.

:D Ron
 
Thanks for reply

Shell has high glossy finish, all brass emblems gas gold finish too. First look is like to be an officers, but as You wrote - maybe this is an NCO variant modified from EM helmet.
About cover - it fits perfectly and cames from this helmet. Neck visor from helmet is deformed - the same deformation is in leader sewn into neck pocket of helmet cover.

Someone could read unit of this pickelhaube ?
 
This is an issued helmet. When you see the stamps and the markings on the rear visor you know that it was stored and issued by the unit. An officer would buy a private purchase item. It is possible – possible that this was purchased by a one-year volunteer from the unit and then upgraded but that is a stretch. I would vote for parts helmet. Sorry – only an opinion.
 
This is a directly found from attic. From family of previous owner. There is no possibly to be a postwar build from pickelhaube. All traces of use shows that all parts was on this helmet from ages. Also helmet cover fits perfectly and has the same characteristic damages as helmet (deformation of neck visor). If someone decided to modify EM helmet to NCOs of Officers he must do this during ww1 or earlier. Maybe it was moved from regiment to officers use - I don't know.
I agree that it doesn't look like to be typical, privatekauf helmet for officers. Maybe it was used by NCO who has been promoted from Enlisted-man - he keep his helmet and do modifications?

Mystery for me :) But I like it
I know history of this helmet, and I am sure that modifications cames from ww1 era.

It wasn't a ebay or flohmark buy.

Thanks for opinions
Michal.

ps. - I will post some shots where You can see that all parts was on this helmets for ages.
View attachment 1View attachment 2View attachment 3View attachment 3View attachment 4
 
OK
I made some more photos

first compare - helmet cover has rusty circle which was made by rust on cocarde.
View attachment 4
View attachment 3

second compare - cocarde ring has a dark patina - only under chinstrap it has original silver colour.
View attachment 2
View attachment 1

and last - neck visor has the same deformation like leather sewn into neck pocket in helmet cover.


All parts was on this helmet for ages - also all emblems etc and cover.

I want to hear Yours opinion.
Thanks
Michal
 
I certainly understand your confusion but as noted already by other forum members it most likely concerns a parts helmet. There are just too many red flags for me with this helmet, which were already pointed out. However, the most important thing is that you like it :D

Regards,

Edwin
 
However, the most important thing is that you like it
Click to expand...

Amen – I have one like that that has been given the thumbs down by a number of people but I like it and I think it is good to go – you are the collector!
 
I too agree that the main thing is would be that you like it.

Pickelhaube were about the number one 'bring home' item of the WWI soldier and I would imagine (IMAGINE, not know) that some enterprising young doughboys and Tommies, especially during the occupation post war, may have put together good looking helmets from bits and pieces to be traded or sold (especially in places like Koblenz, where helmets were stored). If this was something like that, it still has some historical significance for that reason.
(I have a Bavarian Artillery type hemet with a beautiful Prussian plate that was my third purchase when I started collecting years ago. All I saw was a spiked helmet with a cross base, chin scales and a Prussian eagle. I now have the proper plate, but leave the beautifully gilt Prussian on it because that's how it was found. Perhaps another of these souvenir helmets... but chances are probably 99.9% it's not)

:D Ron
 
I like it too! Great to have those flat infantry chin scales present. Excellent NCO kokarden. The helme is in excellent condition. Technically, the only thing non regulation is that it has an officer spike on it. An OR spike would be easy to find. Of interest and unusual for this age of helmet is that the spike base fasteners have screw posts (quite long actually) with square nuts and not the usual split prongs. These make it easy to take that spike off.
Can you please tell us what markings are on the rear visor? Once we know these, we can tell you the regiment that it came from. It was accepted by the Regt in 1908.
BAX is the 10th Army Korps. The size is 56.5 cm
 
b.loree said:
I like it too! Great to have those flat infantry chin scales present. Excellent NCO kokarden. The helme is in excellent condition. Technically, the only thing non regulation is that it has an officer spike on it. An OR spike would be easy to find. Of interest and unusual for this age of helmet is that the spike base fasteners have screw posts (quite long actually) with square nuts and not the usual split prongs. These make it easy to take that spike off.
Can you please tell us what markings are on the rear visor? Once we know these, we can tell you the regiment that it came from. It was accepted by the Regt in 1908.
BAX is the 10th Army Korps. The size is 56.5 cm
Click to expand...

Hi
I decidet to keep this officers spike and noto to change for EM variant. I think this was modification by EM who was promoted to NCOs. Maybe I am wrong, but spike looks like to be on helmet from ages.
On rear visor is signature of 164 Infanterie Regiment.
I cant read kompanie number.

regards
Michal.
 
Frozzer said:
b.loree said:
I like it too! Great to have those flat infantry chin scales present. Excellent NCO kokarden. The helme is in excellent condition. Technically, the only thing non regulation is that it has an officer spike on it. An OR spike would be easy to find. Of interest and unusual for this age of helmet is that the spike base fasteners have screw posts (quite long actually) with square nuts and not the usual split prongs. These make it easy to take that spike off.
Can you please tell us what markings are on the rear visor? Once we know these, we can tell you the regiment that it came from. It was accepted by the Regt in 1908.
BAX is the 10th Army Korps. The size is 56.5 cm
Click to expand...

Hi
I decided to keep this officers spike and not to to change for EM variant. I think this was modification by EM who was promoted to NCOs. Maybe I am wrong, but spike looks like to be on helmet from ages.
On rear visor is signature of 164 Infanterie Regiment.
I cant read kompanie number.

regards
Michal.
Click to expand...
 
Michal,

Yes, I totally agree, the regiment number is 164, 4th Hanoverian infantry regiment with garrison in Hameln and Holzminden. It fits perfectly with the B.A.X. stamp (X. Armee Korps).
But that makes this helmet even more mysterious... because the JR164 did not show the classic line eagle but the one with "Waterloo" Bandeau... :-?
But there is no ghost of this bandeau on the shell... #-o
Near the JR164 stamp, there are two other stamps and I think that they are indicating the company and Bataillon. Just my two cents that the stamp at the bottom says 6.C. II. (6. Companie of the II. Bataillon). This stamp seems to have been " ink blacked" at some time and the stamp at the bottom could be a new company in the same Bataillon. I am reading 8.C. II.. Just my humble opinion. But this is indeed a big problem that the plate is not matching the regiment stamp....
Too much suppositions on this one, although all the parts are original....Personally, I would let it go too...

Philippe
 
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