Question on Pickelhaube carcass

[JohannesM]

Dear all,

I got this carcass of a Pickelhaube several years ago. I almost forgot about it but recently got interested to learn more about it after reading through various militaria forums. So far, I think it carries the Garde eagle - and Kokarden as well as Schuppenkette (scale chain) point to an Unteroffizier, while the bowl and its leather looks more like the Mannschaft-type - but I am very, very unsure about all this ...
Maybe it is just a Frankenstein-like composition of various parts?

Any comment & suggestion is highly appreciated!

Best,
Johannes

 

[argonne]

Schuppenkette (scale chain) point to an Unteroffizier
Maybe it is just a Frankenstein-like composition of various parts?

Hi Johannes,
I´m afraid to confirm that this "composition" has nothing to do with a original and genuine Haube...Part helmet, I think...Garde eagle is officer pattern (voided crown) but with Mannschaft center. Reich cockade is officer, prussian cockade is Unteroffizier with Portepee (Vizefeldwebel, Feldwebel and Fähnrich too).
Shell is Mannschaft pattern, but looks to me more like a fireman or police shell. No back trim and front trim is Mannschaft.

Further, a "Schuppenkette" never is a sign for the rank of Unteroffizier, only a sign for private purchased helmet

Philippe

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Hello,
I agree with Philippe. It could be a helmet for a one-year contract. As far as the schell is concerned, a fireman's helmet leaves marks.
---You'd need a photo of the back of the helmet.
---A photo of the front, without the guard eagle, is needed to see the holes.
---We need a photo of the back of the eagle, to see the fastenings.
Thank you for your help.

 

[JohannesM]

Hi Philippe and Clovis,

thank you so much for your replies and expert input!
This sounds really interesting and I think I will be learning a lot about this piece - and Pickelhauben in general. I appreciate your response a lot.
I have attached additional photos:

Best wishes
Johannes

 

[Amybellars]

Hi Johannes

This is a fireman body with its liner.

I agree with Phillips and clovis.

The wappen is a Grenadier eagle with modern screw posts. In the middle of the wappen is the enlisted man garde star.

Regards
Amy Bellars

 

[argonne]

Thank you for the new picts. As I thought, a fireman helmet, one can see the shape of the "banana" on the top. The brown liner is also very typical for those helmets

Philippe

 

[JohannesM]

Dear all,

thank you so much for your support and for helping to solve this puzzle! I will have to think what to do with this composite piece...

Will definitively come back to you and this excellent forum in case of planning to buy or coming across another Haube.

Best,
Johannes

 

[poniatowski]

Remember folks, during wartime, some fireman's helmets were converted into military types. Seeing all of the fireman fitting holes filled makes me think this MAY have been one. I do NOT like the larger holes for the plate, which suggests it was replaced to make it 'more cool', but it makes me wonder if this could be that type of Ersatz helmet? All in all, even if it was one of these, I think somebody put different fittings on it and it is indeed a parts helmet. ??? Any thoughts?