Rare M15 Prusian first model Pickelhabe
- Thread starter Dries kroos
- Start date
Dries kroos
New member
coert65
Well-known member
Hello Dries,
On the left side of the rear visor is a little square stamp with F in it. The F stands for feldbrauchbar, this is why I thought it was repaired, and fit for use at the front again. The stamp on the right side, 3Btr, I never saw before, but made me think it was Artillery once.
The bekleidungsamt stamp next to it was for me unreadable, but maybe other members know, or can see, more than I can.
Welcome on the forum by the way!
Regards, Coert.
On the left side of the rear visor is a little square stamp with F in it. The F stands for feldbrauchbar, this is why I thought it was repaired, and fit for use at the front again. The stamp on the right side, 3Btr, I never saw before, but made me think it was Artillery once.
The bekleidungsamt stamp next to it was for me unreadable, but maybe other members know, or can see, more than I can.
Welcome on the forum by the way!
Regards, Coert.
Coert, it looks like we have, once again, a BJA xxxxxx 17, similar to what was recently discussed:
Help with Markings
Having a heck of a time trying to figure out the markings from this stamp. The "F" I am sure means it has been worked on in a depot and declared serviceable. It's the other stamp that is driving me crazy. I have tried reading it with a flashlight, in all kinds of different light and can't...
www.pickelhaubes.com
coert65
Well-known member
My thoughts exactly Bruno. I saw the M15 in person, it has a spike which hasn't got the bayonet verschluss on it. Kokarden are original, as is the chinstrap. All fittings on it are in my opinion period correct. And it has no double holes for the wappen. Dries had it as a birthday present from his wife years ago.
I didn't check if it had a makersmark and size stamp inside the shell though, I wish I did.
Regards, Coert.
Yes, but as we said before, 17 should be the year, rather than the BA # which is usually indicated in roman characters (with the well-known exception of RBA18...). This Muetze in Kaisersbunker marked BJA Chtz 17 is also Prussian.
coert65
Well-known member
Yes, I saw that one too. Indeed a Prussian Feldmütze marked like that.
pickelhauben
Well-known member
Good question Philippe
But I would think that the first 15s had a tan liner
But I would think that the first 15s had a tan liner
argonne
Well-known member
To my humble knowledge, the very first " M15" helmets had the two following styles which were a little bit different as the well known mass-produced classic M15 which had tan liner, iron fittings and removable spike . Those two styles were more transition patterns and they are scarce...
- M95 shell (which were still avalaible with black liner from all helmet manufacturers) with all iron fittings and NOT removable iron spike
- M95 shell with all brass fittings and black liner BUT with removable BRASS SPIKE , same bayonet system as the "real and well known" M15 spike" which had tan or light brown liners.
Philippe
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I agree, Philippe, and would make the same comment. Since the detachable spike is the hallmark of the M15 helmet (September 1915), these models with grey fittings, black liners, and fixed spikes should not be seen as bona fide M15s, but rather ersatz models which, all variants included, were produced from the begining of the war. Transition to the M15 was officialized by the ordnance of April 1915 (pewter grey metal parts).
Zebedeus
Well-known member
I completely agree with you Philippe.To my humble knowledge, the very first " M15" helmets had the two following styles which were a little bit different as the well known mass-produced classic M15 which had tan liner, iron fittings and removable spike . Those two styles were more transition patterns and they are scarce...
- M95 shell (which were still avalaible with black liner from all helmet manufacturers) with all iron fittings and NOT removable iron spike
- M95 shell with all brass fittings and black liner BUT with removable brass spike looking exactly like the "real and well known" M15 spike" with tan or brown liners
Philippe
argonne
Well-known member
I used to have one, Brian, but it is long gone and I did not even keep a picture. Here are equivalent early 1915 Tschapkas though, as a proof of concept that such transitional models did exist: brass or white metal fittings, and detachable mortarboards.
When I write "early 1915 Tschapkas", I am probably wrong since the ordnance for detachable mortarboards was published in September 1915, similar to helmet spikes. "Early post-AKO M15 Tschapkas" should be more accurate.
And I forgot to add: liners in both Tschapkas are of black leather.
What I don't know is whether these hybrid models were built entirely from scratch, or were revamped regular earlier Tschapkas from which the leather mortarboard had been cut off.
And I forgot to add: liners in both Tschapkas are of black leather.
What I don't know is whether these hybrid models were built entirely from scratch, or were revamped regular earlier Tschapkas from which the leather mortarboard had been cut off.
