Regiment Flag

[Kaisersammler]

Can someone show me what the flag of the 12th Bavarian Infantry Regiment Prince Arnulf of Bavaria, Neu-Ulm location looked like?

 

[Sandmann]

I found something about it on the website of the Bavarian Army Museum. After almost all flags were lost in an accident during the Russian campaign in 1812, uniform flags were introduced in 1841. The flags of the infantry regiments all looked like this:

(Source: Bayerische Infanteriefahne mit Band des Deutschen Bundes (Bayern nach 1848, Muster von 1841); Inv. Nr.n 5548 und B 1958 © Bayerisches Armeemuseum)

Only the ruler's monograms have been adjusted to the respective reigns.

Bayerisches Armeemuseum - Fahnen und Standarten

 

[KAGGR#1]

Can someone show me what the flag of the 12th Bavarian Infantry Regiment Prince Arnulf of Bavaria, Neu-Ulm location looked like?

Hello
As shown in the Bulgarian Fahna Album
for Bavarian I R 12
Batl I and II had a flag as shown in Bild 108
Batl III had a flag like Bild 109
It appears that most of the Bavarian flags were alike
unlike some of the Prussian flags that were taken to Moscow
I do not know of any Bavarian flags that have been for sale
I think that most all of them are in the Bavarian Army Museum
some years ago the late collector friend of mine
Ben Weed (old flags wanted) was able to visit the museum
with a special focus on the flag display
He took a series of photos of the flags and made me a duplicate set
when I can remember where they are and I locate them
I will post some of them
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

Hello
As shown in the Bulgarian Fahna Album
for Bavarian I R 12
Batl I and II had a flag as shown in Bild 108
Batl III had a flag like Bild 109
It appears that most of the Bavarian flags were alike
unlike some of the Prussian flags that were taken to Moscow
I do not know of any Bavarian flags that have been for sale
I think that most all of them are in the Bavarian Army Museum
some years ago the late collector friend of mine
Ben Weed (old flags wanted) was able to visit the museum
with a special focus on the flag display
He took a series of photos of the flags and made me a duplicate set
when I can remember where they are and I locate them
I will post some of them
SteveView attachment 25941

The flags for I R 12 / I & II Batl were given in 1842
The flag for Batl III was given in 1848
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

The flags for I R 12 / I & II Batl were given in 1842
The flag for Batl III was given in 1848
Steve

The flags of I & II Batl have the same cyphers in the 4 corners
If the album is correct
III Batl has a different cypher ?
Steve

 

[Kaisersammler]

Many thanks for your efforts. A little story about my research.
More than 1 year ago, some people came up with the idea to open a small museum of 12th Infantry Regiment. To commemorate the served and fallen soldiers. Many also served from the surrounding villages. I offered to look for some uniforms. The cultural office of the city of Neu-Ulm does not have a photo or picture of the flag. They also did not know that this flag was present at the imperial proglamation.
However, due to the resistance of some people, this museum could not be realized. Militarism no longer fits into today's culture. Even in our neighboring city of Ulm, we are considering tearing down the Hindenburg monument and renaming the street names of military figures.
Hindengurgstrasse, Motlkestrasse will probably no longer exist.

 

[KAGGR#1]

Many thanks for your efforts. A little story about my research.
More than 1 year ago, some people came up with the idea to open a small museum of 12th Infantry Regiment. To commemorate the served and fallen soldiers. Many also served from the surrounding villages. I offered to look for some uniforms. The cultural office of the city of Neu-Ulm does not have a photo or picture of the flag. They also did not know that this flag was present at the imperial proglamation.
However, due to the resistance of some people, this museum could not be realized. Militarism no longer fits into today's culture. Even in our neighboring city of Ulm, we are considering tearing down the Hindenburg monument and renaming the street names of military figures.
Hindengurgstrasse, Motlkestrasse will probably no longer exist.

Sorry to hear that
That sounds like what has happened here in the Southern States of the USA
most Confederate monuments are being either torn down or taken down
You cannot change history
Steve McFarland

 

[Sandmann]

Sorry to hear that
That sounds like what has happened here in the Southern States of the USA
most Confederate monuments are being either torn down or taken down
You cannot change history
Steve McFarland

Rename streets or places is the same like burning books. But these people don't understand that they are intolerant and radicals when they do that. There is only one thing you can do with unwelcome history... and that is to put up explanatory plaques under the affected street signs or monuments which, according to modern opinion, explain why this is no longer a name to be honoured. Furthermore, people should always remember that our ancestors had something in mind to honor these people. Therefore, a contempt for this honor should always be well considered.

 

[Lars13]

Rename streets or places is the same like burning books.

Hi Sandy,
I have to disagree, names that were acceptable in the past might no longer be acceptable these days, it's just a question of where we draw the line. An A.H. square would not be acceptable, even with an explanatory plaque. Hindenburg was not only a general, but also a political figure that helped the nazis come to power. Should you have a street in his honour? However Rommel is still accepted, as he was part of the asassination attempt of Hitler, even though he supported the nazis.
No clear black and white boundary, more lighter and darker grey .
Regards,
Lars

 

[coert65]

I agree, but never forget the history behind all. We Dutchman also have a history regarding slavery and such.

Colonial things.. Always see things in their respective time zones. You just cannot judge things so easily as people do now.
It is far to easy. If you see things in their respective time zones, and know how the world was at that time, taking facts about it,
people would know better.
You just cannot eraze history, just because you don't like it. It is there, for all too see.
And, people then, did not even know about national socialism.

Never forget how things were then, but most of all, never compare them to what's happening now.
It isn't so easy.

Regards, Coert.

 

[KAGGR#1]

I can't equal anyone in the Confederate Army to A H and what he and the people around him did.
In Memphis close to where I live after the war was over the citizens of Memphis obtained a city square block
and named it General N B Forrest Park . Around 1900 a life size monument of General Forrest was crafted
and paid for by the citizens of Memphis .That statue stood for over 100 years . The General and his wife were buried
under the statue .Also his Grandson also a General in the Army Air Force was shot down in WWII .
I am not sure if his remains were ever located but there was a headstone for him in the park.
The black citizens of Memphis wanted the monument down
A few years ago the monument was taken down in the middle of the night
The bodies of the General and his wife were dug up and had to be moved to middle Tennessee
Someway the city of Memphis sold the city block park to a group for $ 1.00
The park was renamed and no trace of the General remains
Old newspapers from my former collection

 

[Sandmann]

Hi Sandy,
I have to disagree, names that were acceptable in the past might no longer be acceptable these days, it's just a question of where we draw the line. An A.H. square would not be acceptable, even with an explanatory plaque. Hindenburg was not only a general, but also a political figure that helped the nazis come to power. Should you have a street in his honour? However Rommel is still accepted, as he was part of the asassination attempt of Hitler, even though he supported the nazis.
No clear black and white boundary, more lighter and darker grey .
Regards,
Lars

I think we all agree that AH and all his Nazi-pack is nothing you should honor and that is the only thing where I am ok with renaming. For all other I prefer the educational plaques. These help to keep history in people's minds and hopefully prevent people from making the same mistake twice.

 

[KAGGR#1]

I think we all agree that AH and all his Nazi-pack is nothing you should honor and that is the only thing where I am ok with renaming. For all other I prefer the educational plaques. These help to keep history in people's minds and hopefully prevent people from making the same mistake twice.

There is a very famous saying something like ;
If you don't study and remember history, it is likely to repeat itself .
Now over here they no longer like Columbus ; George Washington; A. Lincoln and Thomas Jefferson
they refer to some of them as old dead white on paper money
Steve